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Euan Roberts
4th June 2002, 01:19
A few years ago I received an aircheck from a female jock in a medium/small market. Let's call her "Jackie." Jackie was one-half of a morning team, and she was funny. She did interesting characters, had clever ideas, and was blessed with good timing. Her partner - a male - was not as talented as she. As a result, the show suffered.


I wrote back to Jackie, suggesting that she try to land a morning gig of her own...or form a new team in which she was the lead player. Her personality was too strong to be relegated to just being "the girl" on a morning show.


A month later, Jackie introduced herself to me at a radio convention. She thanked me for my feedback and excitedly informed me that she'd just been offered a job as part of a multi-person morning team at a legendary, large-market AOR station.


"Don't accept the offer, " I said.


"But....But it's a large market," she protested. "And famous call letters. And the station has good ratings."


"The station also has a large morning show with a revolving door - especially for females," I replied. "You'll be the token woman, the fifth jock. You'll have no control over the program's flow and not much input into its content. You'll be wasting your talents, and you won't be happy."


I knew Jackie respected my opinion. Indeed, I had become acquainted with her work because she wanted my advice. So when I recommended that she refuse the job offer, I had no doubt what she'd do.


She'd take the job.


Of course. How could she resist?


She was there for a few months and hated it. Eventually she was let go.


Since then she's worked at several other stations in large markets, including a stint as one-half of a team. I know the (male) jock she was teamed with - talented, personable, a real pro.


And I knew that situation would be unhappy, too. Because he has the kind of strong ego that needs to dominate a show. So does Jackie. The show went nowhere, and again she was out of work.


Jackie had another, short-lived stay at a well-known CHR station as the morning show's token woman. And she's become publicly vocal about how tough it is to be a female personality.


Of course it's tough. In addition to all the crap that all disc jockeys have to put up with, women also have to cope with the prejudices of a male-dominated industry.


And it's the narrow thinking of so many program directors (both male and female) that makes it vital for the female jock to assume responsibility for her own career.


The overwhelming majority of female air personalities have been faced with gender bias sometime in their careers.


If you're a male disc jockey, think back to the last time you went looking for work. Remember the frustration, the rejection, and - especially if you were unemployed at the time - the feeling of isolation?


Now imagine how, in those circumstances, it would have felt to apply for job after job, only to be told, "I like your tape, but we already have a male on our air staff."


With a quick substitution of "female" for "male," that's what female jocks have heard for years.


If you're a male disc jockey, reflect upon all the arguments you've had with program directors and managers regarding your show's content. If you were a female jock, you'd also have experienced this on a regular basis:

"Oh, you can't do that on-the-air. It would be okay if you were a man, but women can't be that way on the radio."


Women "can't be"

*Funny

*Aggressive

*Outrageous

*Controversial

...because

*"Men will feel threatened by you."


*"Women listeners will feel you're competing with them.


*"That's the way it is. Everybody knows that."


*"Research says so." (The person saying this has never seen that re-search, but he's been told that somewhere, someone did some kind of research and it proved that women "can't be" that way on the radio.)


*"We once tried a woman in the job, and it didn't work."


I see it in market after market: a successful morning show that includes a female....either as quasi-news person (disparagingly referred to by some radio people as "news bimbo") or as female sidekick. I call these "side-chicks." They're not really newspeople, and they're not considered full-fledged personalities.


Instead, they're there to lend a female voice to the proceedings and to laugh appreciatively at the real entertainment provided by the male team members.


Often when the "sidechick" works with (or, more accurately, works for) a very successful, well-known disc jockey, she mistakenly thinks his reflected glory will illuminate her career even after she no longer is part of the show.


She doesn't work to improve her craft. Why should she? She's already one-half of the most successful show in town! It is not uncommon for her even to become a bit arrogant, to treat others condescendingly because she is, after all, a star!


But then, inevitably, a change is made in the program, and suddenly she's looking for work. Certainly she won't have any trouble landing a good gig; after all, she was a well-known part of the #1 show in town.


But then she learns the cold, hard truth: Yes, people have heard of her. But few are interested in hiring her - certainly not in a position of equal status.


THE TEN WARNING SIGNS


You know you've got a job and not a career when:


1. You're referred to on-air by your first name only. With few exceptions, male jocks have both a first and a last name. Note how often you'll see a station's line-up in the trades: "Steve Shannon does mornings, Bob Roberts mid-days, Sean Michaels afternoons, Carl Baker does nights, and Lovely Lisa holds down the overnight shift...."


This tendency is incredibly patronizing toward women. Think about it: Children are introduced by first name only ("Bob, I'd like you to meet Tommy; he's one of your biggest fans"); adults are introduced by their full names ("Bob, I'd like you to meet Paul Dixon, one of our newest clients").


Would Jonathon Brandmeier have such a high-profile career if some PD long ago had forced him to use only his first name?

("Hi, I'm Jonathon!" Sounds like it should be followed with, "...and I'll be your waiter this evening.")


2. You're referred to by a first name only, and that name is an artificial, little girl-type name (Bam-Bam, Barbie, Muffy).


3. You're the only female on a team show, and your duties consist primarily of being the focus of cheap sexual innuendo and/or acting as a cheerleader for the boys on the team - i.e., reacting from the sidelines but never really participating as an equal.


4. You can't clearly define a specific, creative, vital contribution you make to the show.


5. You are expected to follow orders but never are asked for creative input.


6. The lead roles on-mike are always taken by others; you never begin or end a break.


7. You rarely find yourself thinking, "I can't wait to get on the air tomorrow and talk about this..." - because you rarely affect the show's content.


8. You often marvel at what an easy job you have, because all you have to do is show up for the shift. You never need to do any show prep, because you don't really do anything on the show.


9. You make far less money than anyone else on the show.


10. When you lose your job, the only other jobs you're offered in your market are part-time.


ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY


How can you avoid the sidechick/news bimbo trap? By caring enough to build a career, rather than settling for just a job. Determine what your most valuable radio skills are and what you really want to do in the industry, and direct all your efforts to achieving that goal.


There's nothing wrong with being a news bimbo - if that's enough to satisfy you. But if you want to do topical satire, you won't get there by providing a human laugh track for "the boys." If you want to want to host your own nationally syndicated countdown show, reacting meekly but good-naturedly while "the boys" joke about how you've slept with every guy in radio probably won't speed you along the career path you seek.


If you're already working on a successful morning show but not in a capacity that affords you self-respect, you can explore other air shift possibilities at your station ...or, more likely, at a competing, less successful station in your market...or in a smaller market.


"But why should I consider going to a smaller market? Isn't that a step down?"


It can be. But if you're trying to climb to the top of a building and the ladder you're on goes only to the top of the basement, you might need first to step down and then start climbing a ladder that takes you where you want to be.

Taken from Dan O'Day's website. It looked interesting for you all. I take no credit this time. I was feeling lazy at the time.

Enjoy the read for those of you that haven't read it. Any comments on this subject?

Dane Bowers
4th June 2002, 08:28
Really really interesting post. Definetley true to a certain extent, but I do think any girl has the potential to do exceedingly well, and many programming directors don't hold gender bias, it's just in a lot of cases girls have to work that bit harder to be seen as an equal to men, and then much harder again to be seen as superior, then in turn that superiority is resented by the men, so it gets more difficult.

Gender bias is probably a lot more apparent in this industry, and I personally have seen a lot of cases where females who would be quite respected in their jobs have been asked on the side to do the odd bimbo link on a show or two, completley reducing the credibility that they have already built up.

It's a never ending debate, and you can't really accuse every station of it, because there are stations aswell that favour women over men in certain departments, also, just maybe not on air

The on air bimbo is a fashion thing, moreso than a sex issue. I think there's a possibility that maybe that format is used because because radio stations know it works, it's probably not as easy to build up credibility for a girl than it is for a guy, unless your Marian Finnucan etc. So really the on air bias against women stems from society in my opinion.

Nick
4th June 2002, 23:18
Is there a total lack of female jocks in pirate radio???

I haven't heard many at all. It seems that pirate radio is almost exclusively dominated by male voices...

Would make a refreshing change... anyone agree?

Nick

Darren B
5th June 2002, 09:03
dunno about a total lack, there are a few female jocks on Freedom and Energy for one.

Although a few more female jocks would make a refreshing change.

Aquavid
5th June 2002, 09:07
Try Phantom:

Alison, Jenny, Pearl, Tara, Amber,

all v.good too :)


~~Aquavid~~

Slicklink
5th June 2002, 09:34
I cant speak for the rest of the country but there is certainly a total lack of jockettes on Irish Radio. One very annoying thing on independent radio is the double header shows that you have on 98 and 104 and now Ray and Cliona on Spin is that the females come accross as being a little bit thick (and I'm only here to say yes and no and repeat what the jock says, dullllllllllllll).

Nicki is sounding good on Spin. There was an ex-Pulse FM girl (alison) who went to work for a brief period at 104 who had so much potential (she was only 18) but she disappeared and was replaced by squeeky).

Nick
5th June 2002, 09:40
Among the pirates in NI, there are NO female jocks...

Nick
5th June 2002, 09:42
Personally, I think that Carolyn Stewart does a great job on Cool, but other than that - Music radio in NI is pretty much male, which does get a little boring.

Turiel
5th June 2002, 16:20
I happened to be up one Sunday morning (for some mad unknown reason) and Shona (shauna?) on Spin was sounding damn hot. And it takes a fair bit of effort to sound sexy at 9am on a sunday morning! Both her and Nikki seem to be doing very well on their own.

Energy have 2 female jocks (claire o d and michelle t), Freedom have 3 or 4 (louise scott, nikki, elaine kane). Neither station use them as "sidekicks". It seems to be Spin, FM104, and some of the other legals that do that now!

ex-pirate
5th June 2002, 22:33
A couple of female jocks on the legal side of radio at the moment include Sonya Mac on Cool FM, and Caroline Fleck? (real name?) on Q97 Causeway coast radio and there is one on Radio North in Donegal weekday afternoons (846mw), not sure of name though.

Steely Dan
6th June 2002, 00:21
Excellent Post Euan,

On the subject of this article, doesn't it say an awful lot about how important having the proper mix of talent in terms of the right breakfast show jocks, whether they are male or female for a radio station are. As long as they blend in and click with each other on air that is the main thing, by way of pulling in a decent audience, and developing a top class morning show.

Naturally enough, all the vital elements need to be in place, such as interesting entertainment items, good gags or humor, music, news and gossip topics that aren't repetitive in nature. Primetime audience at the crucial 7am - 10-am. The programme Director has to be very sure he is getting that essential rapport from each jock if it is two presenters as opposed to one.

Steely Dan

Sarah Baybay
6th June 2002, 00:42
Originally posted by Turiel
Neither station use them as "sidekicks". It seems to be Spin, FM104, and some of the other legals that do that now!
totally agree Turiel ......... thats one reason i dont really intend to aim towards getting onto a legal station.

It can be really difficult to get onair. I think more so for women though. As a girl,its generally assumed that you have no talent and that you're willing to sleep with whoever,just to get anywhere......... sad i know ,but its not only me thats come across this pathetic attitude. And i'm not just talking about the lowest of the pirate stations either ......

Please dont get me wrong,i'm not saying that all female jocks have had to go through this or have even experienced these situations but its something guys never have to contend with.
I'v been offered 'oppertunities' to get onair, but that is NOT the way i wanna get there thanks!:rolleyes:
I'd rather never make it than lower myself to prostitute standard like i know one or two female presenters have ..........

As Turiel said, the legals seem to promote the 'dumb sidekick' approcah which is not only demeaning to the unfortunate woman in question, but also an insult to the listener.
Surely ppl dont wanna have to listen to a 'bimbo' persona on the air ???? As Slicklink said,its quite nausiating to hear the 'yes sir,no sir three bags full sir' routine again and again and again ...

Personally i prefer listening to a guys voice onair,deeper and softer on the ear .... maybe though thats because the females' 'squeeky' voice is encouraged on the legals ??

Maybe i'v just had bad experiences! I do think there is need for more female presenters. Maybe attitudes just need to change ???

Dane Bowers
6th June 2002, 08:12
When you say you don't intend on aiming towards getting on the legals because of the gender bias and stuff, Does that not make you feel stronger about wanting to get on to the legals and prove yourself?

Just personally I think thats a very defeatest attitude to take on, it's like saying "Yea were not seen as eqauls, but I'm not even gonna try and prove them wrong"

Its not like women can't get in the door of a radio station. they can, its just in general the on air positions they are offered lack credibility. But Programme Directors aren't satan, whether your a girl or a guy if you work hard enough you will reap the rewards of that.

Obviously it's your own opinion, and I respect that, but me, being a girl, I hope to most certainly work on the legals to a greater extent and get noticed for it, and ceratinly not have to sleep with people on the way, and yea, I might be a bit ambitious but I'd rather be sayin that, than no, I'm not gonna bother.

Trinity
6th June 2002, 08:54
Really,

get a grip, the industary needs great presenters gender should never be an issue....with any post, but women have to take control and have confidence. Look at the industary.

How many female CEO, programme controllers, music directors etc. Head of News sure long unsocialable hours and hassel.

Lads who had the breakfast chick fashionable.....male listeners and male programmers. Women are to busy for breakfast radio !

Darren B
6th June 2002, 12:02
Sarah, keep plugging away if a presenter is good enough doesnt matter wheather its a male or female. They will make it to the top.

Sure I think the best presenter around is female (Sarah Cox) although Chris Moyles runs her close.

Darren B
6th June 2002, 12:12
Originally posted by Trinity
Really,

get a grip, the industary needs great presenters gender should never be an issue....

It shouldnt be an issue, but unfortunatly it is.

Sarah Baybay
6th June 2002, 23:04
Originally posted by Dane Bowers
Does that not make you feel stronger about wanting to get on to the legals and prove yourself?

Obviously it's your own opinion, and I respect that, but me, being a girl, I hope to most certainly work on the legals to a greater extent and get noticed for it, and ceratinly not have to sleep with people on the way, and yea, I might be a bit ambitious but I'd rather be sayin that, than no, I'm not gonna bother.

I suppose what i said might make me look like i'm just giving up easily and without a fight ...... however its more because its not my goal to make it to the top (or even make it my main career)
I just dont see that as the way i want to go! If i did desire to make it as a presenter then hell yes i'd be fighting and pushing all the way :D
I dont feel i need to prove myself, probably because i'v spent enough time doing that (and still do) in my other career in the financial sector.
I'm the first to admit that getting on radio is not the most important things in my life, (DJing is my passion,and gigs are more rewarding in my point of view)
Maybe if it was, then i'd put all my work and energy into proving my worth etc, but at the moment its going into my outside career and my DJing.
I think it's great that there are women like yourself who are willing to take it all on and push to the top!fair play and i wish you all the best because you sound really ambitious :D

Trinity, being confident and taking control is grand but it wont get you the job of programme controller etc! A lot of stations (and i'm refering more to the legals here) are a very closed bunch and it's all about who you know and who you socialise with. How exactly do you ease into a group like that .... more especially if you're a woman and the group is mainly men?
Gender shouldnt be an issue ........ but as Darren said,unfortunately it sometimes is .............

And yes i know Darren, when i want something i'll drive every1 insane until i get it but as i said earlier, it's not top of my agenda.
Maybe some day it'll jump to top of my list but right now i'm happy to concentrate on the gigging aspect and 'pure dance minus the presenting' radio aspect of things ......
who knows where that may lead,
once i make it big .... who knows .... 2FM might make me an offer i can't refuse :D :D

Dane Bowers
7th June 2002, 08:17
Ok, sorry, It did look like that was what you were sayin!

I love Dane Bowers

Sarah Baybay
7th June 2002, 23:26
no probs :D

Bondvillain
26th January 2005, 13:25
"Why is this idiot re-introducing a 2 year old thread?"



Because, fact fans, coincedentally, after rooting thru this old thread yesterday, Iwas out driving last night, when I had the pleasure of hearing Ray Foley of today fm introduce himself as "Ray Foley" (obviously) and then proceed to back announce & thank "The sexy voiced night time jock Anne Marie".

Thats it. Not AnneMarie Kelly, not A.M. Kelly, but :
"The sexy voiced night time jock Anne Marie".

No comment on music or content or even the standard bollicky flippant handover conversation. Just sub 'loaded magazine' references to the fill-in chick with no surname.

Ahh, what a difference 2 years make, eh?

DeargDoom
26th January 2005, 15:44
Fair enough Bond Villian, but you play with fire when you resurrect threads from Euan Roberts. Even as we speak, somewhere out there the monster stirs ...

count mobi
20th January 2009, 15:55
that was a very good post by euan and was probably true of the time it was made. But i think things have improved now, some stations you cannot imagine without their female voices. There are a select few that remain male only though, they are mainly the long running local stations.

FoxyJock
20th January 2009, 16:37
Yes things have improved but then again we have a thread on here where the only merits of the female DJ'ss being discussed are their looks, the greatest irony is that this is the least necessary attribute needed for a radio job. Most of the female jocks are, as mentioned, sidekicks to male counterparts, there are very few strong positions for women in on-air radio, with a few notable exceptions like at 2Fm.

anto
21st January 2009, 07:20
Yes things have improved but then again we have a thread on here where the only merits of the female DJ'ss being discussed are their looks, the greatest irony is that this is the least necessary attribute needed for a radio job. Most of the female jocks are, as mentioned, sidekicks to male counterparts, there are very few strong positions for women in on-air radio, with a few notable exceptions like at 2Fm.

what about all the newer stations like the spins,i radio,phantom.they have a lot of women on air

daddynolegs
21st January 2009, 09:48
what about all the newer stations like the spins,i radio,phantom.they have a lot of women on air

Well the Spin women barely speak with all that 10 hits in a row going on :king:

burger
21st January 2009, 15:42
Fair enough Bond Villian, but you play with fire when you resurrect threads from Euan Roberts. Even as we speak, somewhere out there the monster stirs ...

count mobi did you not read deargs last entry before you brought this thread into 2009?

:nutter:

count mobi
21st January 2009, 17:17
count mobi did you not read deargs last entry before you brought this thread into 2009?

:nutter:

can't see your point? There's no point in starting a new thread and it's interesting to look back too. So what's your views on the subject?

NetworkNews
21st January 2009, 19:51
Thankfully these days women are taking up strong positions, including management, in radio stations. On air there's still a little way to go in my opinion.

count mobi
22nd January 2009, 17:33
what's the pay situation? Do women have wage parity?

FoxyJock
23rd January 2009, 09:29
what's the pay situation? Do women have wage parity?

In a word. No.

count mobi
23rd January 2009, 13:36
is there much of a difference?

MCtheDJ
25th January 2009, 01:28
Very interesting and certainly an eye opener for me. I'm relatively new to this business and I can already check off many numbers on that list.

star
27th January 2009, 12:57
There are definitely newer regional stations at the moment where the women out-shine the men in a big way.

count mobi
27th January 2009, 13:37
are their pay packets reflecting that though? Apparently not