The RAIDS & COURT CASES thread

[VO Guy]

What is the worst that can happen to you if you run a pirate station?

There is lots about, but can the ODTR do much. I am very curious.

I know you are not suppose to run ads, hence make no money, I am OK with that but what have they done? Or do they bother with anyone at all !!

Thanks.

[Brian O'D]

Worst that can happen is that you receive a £20,000 fine (euro25,000?) and have all your equipment confiscated. The ODTR have the power to confiscate your equipment and order you off the air. But, the general feeling is, if you don't interfere with anyone legal - whether technically or by playing to their audience - you'll be okay.

Read the Irish Era page on KIC FM or the thread in this section on The Irish Mix for accounts of ODTR activity against stations.

[Mike]

Lets get this £20,000 thing into perspective.

the IR£20,000 fines only apply in the case of conviction before A JUDGE AND JURY in the CIRCUIT court. (only possible if you plead not guilty AND request a jury trial)

For conviction in the District court the maximum fine is IR£1000/3 months

Now given that child rapists and murderers are still getting early release the chances of you spending even a day in prison for such a trivial offence are virtually nil

In the case of a first conviction (especially if youve saved the court a lot of time by pleading guilty*) youre highly unlikely to recieve anything approaching the maximum fine. So allowing for inflation things havent really changed that much from the pre-1988 situation !

In reality the worst thing that will happen is the loss of your equipment (even then many judges have ordered the return of studio gear but usually not transmitters)

* In most cases it is usually still worth the gamble of pleading not guilty as in 90% of cases any soliciter worth his salt can pick some hole in the prosecution's case and get you off on a technicality.

[VO Guy]

Thanks alot Mike, thats good advice mate. It also puts a bit of perspective on things.

[Harry Morgan]

I have to pick Mike up on one or two details here.

All the cases taken by the ODTR so far have been summary proisecutions in the District Court and the max fine is £1,000 (or 3 months in the clink, but no-one is likely to be jailed unless something really serious has happened); but they (ODTR) have the choice of going for a prosecution on indictment in the Circuit Court with higher penalties. This can only be taken by the Director of Public Prosecutions, but that's also unlikely to happen as the DPP is pretty snowed under.

With regard to the gear, a District Court Judge can't order you to forfeit the gear after a summary prosecution, even if you're found guilty. This can only happen if you're found guilty in the Circuit Court. The tricky part is that posession of a transmitter without a licence is an offence, as is supplying a Tx to someone without seeing their licence. Does this mean that the ODTR can be prosecuted for giving you back your gear?

It's not true to say that a maximum fine is unlikely though, and the KIC FM case shows that. Incidentally, John is wrong to say that all charges against KIC FM were dropped. There were 6 cases against the KIC folks and 3 went ahead. The ODTR lost one, but won two. John Leonard was acquitted, but Joan Lawlor was convicted on several counts (I'm not sure how many) but I do know that she was fined €1,000 in total.

The big loser was Des Kelly Carpets who own the old State Cinema on the NCR where the studio was located. They were fined €5,000 plus €5,000 costs. My memory is a bit rusty on the cases taken in the 80's & 90's but I'm sure these are the highest fines to date.

There was another post a while ago on the Irish Mix who were busted last year. The post said that this was being appealed. I've checked on this one and the station operator, Seán Reid, said he was going to appeal, but then withdrew the appeal when it came to court. He was convicted on 10 separate charges and fined a total of £2,500.

All this stuff is a matter of record, so it can be looked up if you're a sad git like me. Even I haven't got the time to chase up the court records of the earlier cases out there, though. Any offers?

[Mister807]

Harry,

Thanks for the very informative post. Filled us in on a lot of details that we didnt have/had been misinformed on! Can I ask where you got the information on the KIC case? I tried a few different searches but didnt have any joy. And yes, if I can find it, I will happily look up information on past cases!

Mister 807

[Harry Morgan]

Er, well, ah...

Mister 807 has caught me out a little on that, as I was giving myself too much credit! I have a friend in the law library who keeps me up to date on radio cases and I can sometimes get the gossip.

It is true though that the cases are a matter of record. I will put my money where my mouth is and find out the correct procedure for tracing a case. Anyone any specific requests?;)

[John Fleming]

The story i ran came from sources involved with the station. You would expect not to be misled in a case like this! Anyway, the story has now been updated with facts verified from other sources.

Mister807, there was no intention on my part to misinform.

[Mister807]

Hi John,

Sorry, didnt mean to infer you were misinforming people. More meant that the sources within KIC had been spreading information which wasnt quite true! You can only report it as you get it John, and you do that very well.

Harry, would it be possible to find out the status of the various (NB Radio related only!!!!) cases involving Radio Dublin. Did those cases first started back in 1989 just lapse or do they "Stay on the books" so to speak?

Mister 807

[Ryan Phillips]

Hi

Im in the process of trying to dig up stuff on Pirate raids for you etc etc, but looking for an unreported circuit judgement is like trying to find a needle in the biggest haystack in the world. Im using some fairly top end legal research search engines but nothing yet, and the full Irish Times archive search engine i have access to only starts at 1992. I'll keep looking, but i found this in my travels so i thought i'd put it up. For anyone who knows Daragh I think the highlighted section is hysterical, simple but effective (or not as it turned out i guess!!).





Copyright 1999 The Irish Times
The Irish Times
September 28, 1999
SECTION: CITY EDITION; HOME NEWS; Pg. 5

LENGTH: 433 words

HEADLINE: Sharp-suited applicants seek 'youth-oriented' radio licence

BYLINE: By HARRY BROWNE

BODY:
The key word was vibrant - "vibey", even - as a succession of sharp-suited applicants made their pleas for Dublin's new "youth-oriented" radio licence.

Sparkling audiovisual aids and thumping music were among the other features of yesterday morning's public hearings before the Independent Radio and Television Commission (IRTC).

The licence has been labelled the "dance" category, and no one who waltzed into this ballroom was arguing. They represented four applicants: Spin FM, Pulse FM, Storm FM and Red FM. The Pulse FM consortium, which includes the U2 manager, Mr Paul McGuinness, highlighted its continuity with an unlicensed dance-music station now off the air, Pulse 103. "Pulse FM is now going straight, in the great tradition of pirate-radio broadcasters becoming legitimate, " Mr McGuinness said.

Yesterday's Pulse presentation had a typical emphasis on humour, street cred and high technology. Its sample news broadcast, called NewsLink, began with a voice intoning: "Downloading essential news and information from around the world."

Pulse's would-be programme controller, Mr Daragh O'Sullivan, was asked by the IRTC chairman, Mr Conor Maguire SC, how the station's proposed breakfast show, The Big Horn, would differ from existing programmes on local radio. "Our programme will be actually funny, " Mr O'Sullivan replied.

Another U2 figure, the guitarist Dave Evans, better known as The Edge, was among the speakers for the Storm FM consortium. "Spreading news about new music, new artists, is radio's most important contribution to popular culture," he said.

The chairman of the Storm FM consortium, Mr John Reynolds, said: "Fifteen- to 34-year-olds have become cultural refugees."

The Spin FM consortium, chaired by an accountant, Mr Ossie Kilkenny, boasted the youngest and most female team of pitch-people. Ms Nuala Canning, its sales and marketing manager, said: "We know what this audience wants to hear, but more importantly we know what they want to be identified with."

Spin's team emphasised the fast-changing fashions which characterise the youth audience. Spin's programme controller, Ms Siona Ryan, said: "Trance has been the musical phenomenon of this year. But by the time winter hits, trance will be over and R&B is going to be the big thing."

The Red FM presentation, with a team all in bright red shirts, was the most hard-nosed. Its sales and marketing manager, Ms Jill McGrath, said it would "piggyback on the resources" of the existing stations involved in its bid.

Today's hearings will see four presentations in the "music-driven, 35-plus" category.


Pulse's would-be programme controller, Mr Daragh O'Sullivan, was asked by the IRTC chairman, Mr Conor Maguire SC, how the station's proposed breakfast show, The Big Horn, would differ from existing programmes on local radio. "Our programme will be actually funny, " Mr O'Sullivan replied.

[Turiel]

The Spin FM consortium, chaired by an accountant, Mr Ossie Kilkenny, boasted the youngest and most female team of pitch-people.

AHA! Now we know why they got the license ;)
So wouldn't that make it a team of bitch-people... ?

Disclaimer: I'm joking! Don't sue me for slander or something damnit.

[Mike]

Under the 1988 act prosecutions have to be brought within two years (or reach an out of court agreement with the stations concerned). Failing that the ODTR are supposed to return siezed equipment and pay compensation for any damage caused during the raid

Were there ever any prosecutions from the raids on Kiss (Dublin 103.2), Sunset, Club/Q Power (Limerick), R Star Country etc ?

Maybe we need an "ODTR enforcement database" detailing raids court cases etc ?
http://radio.about.com/blbustable.htm
http://www.infoshop.org/fccthugs.html

Theres a lot of misinformation flying around about the law regarding raids, court cases etc. In many cases ths is emminating from people who should know better (R Dublin springs to mind)

[021]

Mike has an interesting suggestion of a database.
Firstly I remember that the operator of Radio Tralee in Co.Kerry which returned to the air in the summer of 89 was acted against about a year later when he was raided just a few days before Radio Kerry launched. The station owner Cllr Mike Donovan (a colourful Independent member of Tralee town council) was later fined a few hundred pounds)
Secondly in 1991 (I think) when I first discovered Radio Fax on 6205 SW, I remember they read out a newspaper report regarding operators and landowners of 2 or 3 pirates in Co. Donegal being fined a few hundred pounds each (Radio Fax had a weekly show of particular interest to us anoraks, it repeated over Monday and Tuesday if I remember correctly)

[Mike]

Im open to correction on this but Radio Fax closed down voluntairly after recieving an official letter. Nobody was prosecuted and indeed the site is still in use for other SW stations Laser Hot Hits and Reflections International.

I really miss Radio FAX if only for the hilarious mispronouncments of Irish placenames for example

"Members of the Gar-daa-eei raided a pirate radio station in Clon-nas County Mona-gh-han acting on a warrant issued by he minister for communications mariee gogan qwinn"

[021]

You are right about the closure of Radio Fax, was it around Sept 1992??
They did give a couple of weeks notice on-air that they were going to close. The stated it was because of "embarrassement" being caused to the DOC due to representations by the British authorities (about this apparent UK SW pirate station coming from Ireland).
It was probably a struggle to keep the station going anyway, anyone remember they appealed on air for '813' transmitter valves to be donated!

regarding mispronouncments, you'll hear these on Teamtalk 252.
e.g.
regarding a race meeting, Tramore in Co.Waterford was pronounced a few days ago on different bulletins as

"Tray-more"
and
"Tramoray"

[Hollow man]

Why were KIC and Irish mix singled out? what did they do that made the ODTR clamp down so hard??

[Breeze_mod]

Ms Nuala Canning, its sales and marketing manager, said: "We know what this audience wants to hear, but more importantly we know what they want to be identified with."
............................ HA ...........................

[distortion]

hey there im kinda changing the subject

wots the story with low power txs and the law i mean are the penalties higher for being raided with a 20 watt tx / 2000 watt tx

[pa transistor]

I know Kiss Fm in Wexford were raided 2 years ago this coming October and still havent got their gear back.

A lot of expensive equipment was taken on that occasion including 2 flat screen monitors and a plasma tv! not to mention all the audio gear and and optimod.

Theres a question...

Would the optimod be classed as broadcast equipment which they could refuse to give back

[Mike]

"Would the optimod be classed as broadcast equipment which they could refuse to give back"

If they can show it has uses apart from broadcasting they could have a case ?

Are optimods used in recording studios for anything ?

They should definitely be able get the plasma TV back -provided of course they had a TV licence at the time of the raid

[Groucho]

Hi

I know that Kiss 103 had most of the equipment seized during the 1994 raids returned to them last year, including studio gear, processing, stereo encoders and links (both TX and RX).

The only thing they did not get back is the transmission equipment and I believe that there are reasons why they feel they should get that back too in time..

Generally, Comreg will have up to 24 months to prosecute anybody in connection with any recent raids. After that, anybody who has had equipment seized (for whatever reason) can reasonably claim it back based on the premise that no prosecution has taken place.. they cannot seize equipment, ten not attempt to prosecute and still refuse not to return it...

I would be very wary of going to Comreg with photo ID and attempting to claim any equipment seized recently, especially considering that they may use this claim in evidence to prosecute you..

G

[Mike]

including studio gear, processing, stereo encoders and links (both TX and RX

Surely as far as the Broadcasting and wireleless telegraphy act is concerned the links are just as illegal as the transmitter :confused:
Also was there not some challenge taken before against the 24 month time limit on the grounds that it was too long ?
And given that the gear was returned in 2003 and not 1996 could Kiss not invoice COMREG for equipment rental :cheers:

BTW in the 1994 raid they even took the 4-way plugboard from the TX site I hope they got that back too :D

[Groucho]

Hi Mike,

The links would of course have been considered just as illegal as the VHF transmission gear, but they only took a UHF receiver during the 1st raid (not illegal in itself) and took a UHF link TX from the studio in a subsequent raid, even though it was not plugged in or in use.. They returned both of these.

I do believe there was a challenge taken against the 24 month limit on the grounds that it was too long and, following this, it became generally accepted in legal circles that the accepted time limit to take a prosecution was 12/13 months. After this period, it became accepted that a "reasonable" amount of time had passed during which a prosecution should have been attempted. Maybe some of the other learned members of our community could illuminate us on this point..

I reckon that Kiss could have taken action against Comreg seeing as they had not returned the seized equipment after 1996 - in theory - in reality, the ODTR could have dragged it on for years citing difficulties in establishing ownership of the equipment, Kiss's failure to lay claim to the equipment within 24 months and general legal stuff..

What also made it more complicated was that the equpuipment seized from the Kiss studios in September 1994 was seized under the Police Property Act as opposed to under the Wireless & Telegraphy Act - after the owners of Kiss strenuously objected to the ODTR officials removing any equipment that was not "electrically connected" to the transmitter (nothing was by the time they got in), the Gardai present then confiscated the equipment as "evidence" for use in the investigation of unilcenced broadcasting and used other means to seize it..

So it wasnt actually seized as illegal broadcasting apparatus - it was seized as evidence in the investigation of a crime (pending further investigation that never actually happened..!)

I think that this was unique in many cases of seizure of illegal broadcasting equipment and was only done because they would have been unable to seize anything other than the FM TX under the Wireless & Telegraphy Act....

So, away they went with everything, but from what I remember, Kiss were back on within an hour....!

G