Can I just say ........./RnB Lovers - narrowminded?

[fox three]

Is it my imagination or are lovers of RnB very narrow minded. to them RnB is the only kind of music there is or ever has been or ever will be?! I mean the looks I get when I come out of RnB and go into the 'Rave shit' These days Rave relates to anything above 130 bpm. Im playing Kylie, someone comes up to me 'are you playing this crap dance music all night' and then gives you this knacker indignant look cos you wont play J-lo right now.

Sorry i just had to get that off my chest cos I got a bag of CDs in the post to day and the majority of them are RnB. Thats why i prefer doing oldies nights now!

[Elaine]

How dare they call kylie crap tut tut:p :)

[The squire]

Maybe your being narrow minded by tarring all rnb lovers with 1 brush? I love rnb but am crazy about my house music aswell. Along with whatevers good!!

The people you're referring to arent rnb lovers...... Theyre w**kers!! I get them all the time! the way to deal with them is lock them in that little wooden cabinet under the mixer! And then forget about them.

Oops!

[Liamo]

Gotta agree to some extent....although the same could be levelled at some dance, house, or hip-hop fans....

I reckon that if there was a club catering for each little niche sub-section of music (and I'm almost calling 130bpm and 140bpm separate sub-sections here) you'd probably have a couple of thousand clubs around the place with about 20 people in each saying "this is soooo much better than the other places".

You can't please all the people all the time, and I know some people who would turn up their noses that you even dared to consider J-Lo R&B.

I agree with fox...it is starting to look increasingly easier to do a 70s or 80s night (with its now oh-so-backward "pop, rock heavy metal or alternative" sections)- at least people know what they're coming in for.

I'm just wondering...is there a market for a club that just provides beer and a dancefloor, and the punters can bring their own walkmans and listen to whatever the hell they like ? (can't add an icon coz I'm only half-joking!)

[Iano]

Not that long ago i was strutting through my usual r&b/hip hop vibe to about 900 punters. After about an hour i decided to change the set and threw on ''Where love lives ''[remix] [about 128 bpm ] and immediately got over 10 complaints from girls saying it was too dancy .I continued as normal and after about 5 tunes , i saw people leaving the club and complaints were made to the management .............it looks like all my house tunes will be staying at home AGAIN this weekend ...........

Iano.

[Wastedchildhood]

Sure R'n'B listeners are narrow minded. All they seem to know is J Lo, Nelly and Mary J Blige which ain't even real R'n'B, yet if you dish up real R'n'B to them they look at you like your castrating their grannies. They are akin to the fools who think Robbie Williams is progressive Concept Rock or Oasis are the best band ever; God knows there is many who think that!

[max power]

ian why did you have to mention the 900 punters bit , its not the first time i've seen you talk about the big crowds you play so, whats with it ??????

[The squire]

Originally posted by Wastedchildhood
Sure R'n'B listeners are narrow minded. All they seem to know is J Lo, Nelly and Mary J Blige which ain't even real R'n'B,

Exactly, they arent even real rnb, so how can the people in question be rnb lovers??

This is a "generic" topic, which can be applied to any genre of music. I play an rnb in town and i have the exact same problem with people who want house tracks & Rock tracks.

This is not about r'n'b lovers being narrow minded, in fact it has nothing to do with rnb at all. the problem here is that there are too many clubbers that are inconsiderate towards the dj and their fellow clubbers. They expect to hear what they want to hear because its "THEIR night out" and to hell with everyone else.

Lets not make this about rnb or hiphop just because its the music of the moment. These people have been around since the start of clubbing. Ask Ian, he'll tell you, he was there! :)

[KJ]

We've had the "RnB Diva" topic 2 or 3 times before so, instead of repeating myself (and the fact that Im in full on lazy mode) here's a copy and paste job instead ;)


-------------

.....................As I said in that thread DD I find the RnB Dublin Divas very funny, ye have to laugh at them otherwise you'd end up in a rubber room

Sample converstation with 2 Canadian(!) Divas on Saturday night

"You were playing some great RnB earlier, why did you stop?"

Me - "Because I like to look after the entire crowd"

"Yeah but Jesus man what you're playing now is sooooooo crap" (the floor was full to Tim Deluxe at the time)

Me - "Tell ya what girls, there's an RnB club not too far from here - would you like directions?"

I wouldnt mind if they were tasty looking but the tide wouldnt take this pair out


------------------------------------

and then there was ........................



"Aaaaaaaah yes indeed, "girlies in clubs and RnB" eh? Where do I start??!




quote:

Women tend to dictate whats played because they generally fill the floor




Yup, always have and always will. One of the golden rules of club jocking is - get the women on the floor first and the men will follow, it's been like that since the 1950's so I cant see it changing soon


What is very sad to see tho is the amount of RnB a jock has to play at a gig to keep the floor lately, there's little room for experimentation any more - as someone said above - its back to basics, people just want Hot Hits and a good ol' retro dance set (Mix Factory, SL2, N Trance etc) doesnt seem to do it for most crowds these days.

Re: "the D4 girlie" brigade who scoff at the DJ when he finishes his RnB set and wants to look after other punters - I laugh at them to be honest, .......... hellooooooooo girls, you're *dancing* to manufactured sugar coated Hip Hop daaaaarlings, not starring in the bloody videos!

Dont get me wrong, I *love* RnB but the club/bar-going females of Dublin have to open their mind a bit more. If they want RnB ALL night they should go to a specialist club (there's heaps of them) and not a mainstream gig

Club DJing has certainly thought me alot about the patience of women and how fickle they are!


_______________________________


Where IS that saucer of milk I asked for ages ago eh?

lol

KJ

;)


PS - Max: Ian works 5-6 nights a week, Ive to ask (again) where do you work?

[Iano]

Ok Max , getting a little touchy are we ?? ........So for the record , the 900 punters were at Club 92 in Leopardstown .
Does that answer your question Max ? or would you like me to find out their names and addresses for you .

[Iano]

Oh yeah , i forgot to mention , i dont play to big crowds every night and it's not my intention to give the impression that i do .
In fact , i played to less than 100 people last night so i hope that makes Max feel a whole lot better .........

[The squire]

Its getting bad when every little thing you say gets picked up on. 900 isnt even a massive crowd. poor ian.

[fox three]

If it was 9 people and I got paid for it, I wouldnt give a toss. Work - Money - Home. End of Story!

[The squire]

Cant beat a good old fashioned love of music!

[Original Tyrone Gobshite!]

Originally posted by Liamo
I'm just wondering...is there a market for a club that just provides beer and a dancefloor, and the punters can bring their own walkmans and listen to whatever the hell they like ? (can't add an icon coz I'm only half-joking!)

I think (or at least there was) a club in Belfast in the University Quarter that did something similar to this - it was called "Bring Yer Own" where the punters themselves supplied the music! I was never at it though...

[Iano]

It's very frustrating for DJ's getting pestered all the time for the same tunes week in week out but that's the market were catering to in mainstream clubs .
Unfortunately the dance scene is not as strong in Dublin as lets say , 5 years ago , and the emergence of r&b & hip hop has grabbed the attention of a whole new market of club goers .
Next time somebody asks you for a hip hop track , just play ''Another one bites the dust '' by Queen and see their reaction ......Oldies ??'' are you takin the piss ??''....This tune has influnced hip hop and rap artists for years in the USA and is classed as the first real hip hop track by a lot of black american and UK producers . So in other words , most so called hip hop fans are not really well up on a style of music they claim to be experts on ....

As for dance ?? depends on which style of dance takes your fancy .....One of the main reasons [ i think ] dance has lost it's appeal is , certain so called prometers in Dublin opened shit holes and catered to the bottom end of the market and gave it a bad name .......I remember ''The Pod '' in 94 ; .classy crowd , sexy tunes and no trouble ..Result ? everybody wanted to be part of it .

It's a pity DJ's like Al Gibbs , Conor G , etc etc have only got 1 night a week exposure on radio because a little bit more might help the cause ..I could be wrong but it's just an opinion .

As for pirate ? well The Pulse FM was about the only decent piriate i can remember exposing good music ,and it's return would be welcomed by everybody associated with clubbing ......

Iano [ news at 10 , Tallaght ] ...

[fox three]

Al and Conor could be on doing there thing 7 nights a week and it would make no difference. Theres no the same output of dance music that there was 5 years ago. That in turn leaves it difficult for the main stream commercial DJ to do anything creative except RnB which is the most popular.

I did and oldies night last night. 60s - 80s. Nothing even near the 90s, had a great night cos I didnt have to play christina or justin or any of that other crap.

On a seperate note, 900 in knackery doo!?? Must have been a quiet night! :)

[Iano]

Maybe they need a younger more in touch DJ who'll play tunes from next months dance chart ......Any takers ?? Lol.

[Bren Long]

On the subject of RnB, I'd like to see what peoples thoughts are on exactly what RnB is....

If you're an old fogey like me, then you'll probably subscribe to the notion that REAL Rhythm n Blues is best typified by the likes of John Lee Hooker, BB King, and even some material by Clapton and George Clinton (suprisingly).

Personally, I can't see how the likes of J Lo (or anyone else weighed down with half a ton of Bling Bling) repeatedly singing about how they keep things "real", has any resemblance to the "Blues" aspect of the music.

Todays RnB seems to be more about vocal harmony than about the struggles of everday life.

[Katy Lied]

couldn't agree with you more, Bren.

[Turiel]

I dont think it has much to do with R&B lovers being narrowminded in particular. Its the whole attitude to music in general. The fact is, if they dont know the song, they wont dance to it. If its new and its not on MTV, you're fcuked, no matter how good it sounds. Justin Timberlake (both Like I Love You and Rock Your Body) cleared the floor for me countless times until it was released on MTV. People even came up and asked me to stop playing crap - the exact same people who 3 weeks later would be giving it loads on the dancefloor.

What do we do about it? CAN we do anything about it? Is it our place to educate the crowd? Should it just be left to the radio presenters to do?

[DeargDoom]

It comes down to the fact that most of the public are pig ignorant morons. I'll go to a dance gig, an r'n'b gig, I've even been known to chill out at jazz concerts before. I'll try anything once (except incest). Its a shame that most of the punters out there these days are such mindless sheep that they still want to hear 500 miles by the Proclaimers. And why oh why even ask a jock for Justin Timberlake? Don't you know we're gonna play him at least three times during the course of the night.

btw Iano ... I played Alison Limerick on Friday night for you as a little tribute to the last of the punks!

DD

p.s.. went to do a gig on Friday and realised I had lost a cd with both Justin Timberlake "Rock your Body" and Beyonce on it. You can imagine the fun I had dealing with the customers that night!

[sub-site]

Originally posted by Turiel
I dont think it has much to do with R&B lovers being narrowminded in particular. Its the whole attitude to music in general. The fact is, if they dont know the song, they wont dance to it. If its new and its not on MTV, you're fcuked, no matter how good it sounds.

I was woken at about 2am last night by someone blasting out Micky Joe as a finale to a house party. I really felt embarrassed for these people: I felt absolutely no desire to gate-crash. This got me thinking...

Forget the crowd at the party. Invent a hypothetical third person (able to hear the action from a distance) who you are deliberately trying to exclude and make jealous. The more they'd want to gate-crash, the better.

[father_ted9t9.]

names and addresses would probably answer all the issues ian, can you arrange that tonight please??

[Iano]

Yeah Ted , im sure it would .lol ....Then we could all go to their homes and threaten them with Cliff Richard songs until they all see some sence ........Im workin on it as we speak ...

[Al Murray]

Hey guys,

Just saw the topic and thought id throw in my 50 cent:)

On the whole "what is real R n' B" thing, R n' B is now become so generic that there is no way to define it to a tee. Last year this genere of music outsold EVERY other type of music worlwide. If you are going to say that Marvin Gaye, Ottis Redding etc defines real R n' B, then we are likely never to hear "real R n' B" ever again.

I love every type of music but specialise in R n' B and hip hop and i can see how you could think that the people that listen to this type of music could be narrowminded but the fact of the matter is that unless people hear the tunes, they wont know em and wont dance.

Slightly gone off the point but its late and i need my beauty sleep;)

Just a little food for thought.

P.S. bring back the pirates so i have somethin to do durin the day!!!

[Iano]

Good reply Al and i agree with everything you say,'' if they dont know it , they dont want it ''

What a lot of us dont understand is , most of the r&b heads [if i can call them that ] dont know much about Marvin or Otis so it's a little unfair of us to slag em off just because they are not a musically educated as your average music critic , and lets be fair here , some of them are aged between 17 & 23 .

Can be a little frustrating for jocks who love dance , rock , alt and other vibes to only get a reaction to mainstream pop & r&b .

Bottom line here , if it works ? play it ........Get paid , go home and listen to the sex pistols or the Beatles and count your money

Iano [ nothing on TV at this silly hour ] ..

[KJ]

I must have played about 70% of my set last night RnB stlylee just to keep the crowd. It was an absolute pain in the arse trying to hold the floor with anything that wasnt Christina/R Kelly/Beyonce etc

How about we all just cut back on it guys and follow Niall Boylan's lead with something a bit different - I hear he's reduced his RnB set severly on Sat nights in Club M. Good commercial dance wont make a come back unless we start sticking our necks out a bit

KJ

;)

[Ice Pop Daddy]

I think we've all fallen into the trap of just banging out the R 'n' B for an easy life. I find these days if you even attempt to play anything dancey you'll have half a dozen bling bling J-lo wannanbes attack you, demanding that you 'play something decent'. I just give in and play what they want.

When dance first started to fade,I started to introduce the odd "classic" into my set in order to fill some time. The reaction was fantastic! Then, instead of warming up with some current funky vocal house I introduced 20- 30 minutes of classics before moving into the Kylie's and the like - it worked a treat! Then, about six months ago, it stopped working and like yourself Kelly, my night would now be 70 to 80% R 'n' B.

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of R 'n' B and hip hop but is it just me or has the atmosphere disappeared from clubs and bars because of the abundance of R 'n' b/hip hop/pop being churned out by DJ's?

Much respect to Letchy for defying the pearse street mob that go to Club M and playing more dance. That'll piss them off!:-)

[Iano]

Last week i pulled out the following tracks and it worked really well....

9PM Till i come .....ATB
September[ remix ].....E W F
Groovejet .....Spiller
Rockerfellaskank.......Fatboy Slim
I believe.....Happy Clappers
Sun is shining.......Bob Marley vs Funkstardeluxe
Sweet dreams......La Bouche
Groovy train......The Farm



It got a decent reaction because they are well remembered by
almost everybody and it's as commercial as youll get .

Problem i have though is , lets say the gig is 4 hours long and the
crowd will only react to r&b , have i got 4 hours of r&b to play ??
I do , but i'll be going back in the years to try make up a set that will last ......

Iano.

[fox three]

that I had a great weekend. Roll on oldies nights. I did 2 over the weekend and the atmosphere was fantastic. However you still get some dopey bee-atch that wants Justin Timberlake in the middle of an oldies night. Awwww go on, for meeeeee!!!!

[Voyeur]

awh pleeeeeeeeease???!!! .... will make it worth ur while ....
*flutters eyelashes innocently* :)

[Ice Pop Daddy]

Can I just add that my dance set came to a grand total of 15mins last night. It ended so soon because I only had a quarter of the crowd on the floor compared to what I had for the R 'n' B.

Check in here in roughly 3 weeks from now to see if I'm playing any dance at all!!!

Nice to see you're making use of those oldies you bootlegged from me, Fox.........:-)

[sub-site]

Makes you wonder what kind of auidence 6 2 6 is pulling in:confused:

[Iano]

Dance is dead , apart from the odd club [ie Traffic ] , kinda frustrating especially when a lot of us enjoy it .

Always get a reaction to oldies and it really pisses of the selfish ,impatient, narrowminded idiots who think ''Crazy in Love ''is the only record ever made .....

Iano

[LisaLavish]

Originally posted by Ian Cribbin
Dance is dead , apart from the odd club [ie Traffic ] , kinda frustrating especially when a lot of us enjoy it .



dance is not dead...its a time wen ireland can give a chance to show wat talent we have in this country& the smaller promoters will rise up ie.melodica,obsqure etc....who cares about the superstar big money grabbing djs...Hopefully this is the start of a new era in Irish clubbing, with the concentration on creating our own scene instead of relying on foreign influence and a new underground that's all about the music.

[Princess]

Originally posted by Ice Pop Daddy
Can I just add that my dance set came to a grand total of 15mins last night. It ended so soon because I only had a quarter of the crowd on the floor compared to what I had for the R 'n' B.



I'm the same, the only dance they'll stay on for after the Dj Sammy crap is retro 9 type dance,
bit of a mare

[fox three]

Originally posted by LisaLavish
dance is not dead...its a time wen ireland can give a chance to show wat talent we have in this country& the smaller promoters will rise up ie.melodica,obsqure etc....who cares about the superstar big money grabbing djs...Hopefully this is the start of a new era in Irish clubbing, with the concentration on creating our own scene instead of relying on foreign influence and a new underground that's all about the music.

Like we said, DANCE IS DEAD! Nothing against Lisa, but we are the DJs that are out playing in it every week. I think we would know what works and what doesnt work.

[LisaLavish]

commercially...I shud hope so :D

but im still given a good choice at the weekends where to go...maybe the venues have changed slightly but the attitudes are getting better(in the non sell out clubs)

[Judge]

Yeah, I still have a soft spot for the dance being part of the whole generation thing and all that but afraid I agree that no-where really serves it properly anymore. When Im gigging the floor clears if ya attempt a dance-set. it's RnB all the way on the dance-floor as of late

[LisaLavish]

Yeh i agree on what your saying but the clubs that provide specific dance nights ie.last saturday TBMC obsqure techno night the dancefloor was full....but in a club which provides for all types of music...commercially yes i agree RnB has taken over.
I suppose alot of the dj's on this forum would dj in this type of venue so would find it hard to see where my points are coming from.

[FlippinMental]

I know where your coming from Lavish. I was, like you, a Redbox regular with gibbs on Thursdays, Robbie on Fridays and the likes of Fergie and great guests on Saturdays BUT Dublin has followed suit with other countries and flippin RnB is taking over - Bah Humbug

[LisaLavish]

but all is not lost!! Ive been going to smaller promoters gigs and they were nearly better as there in for it for the music and not the money.....If you like your techno then go see pete loop when ever hes in town....he was playing with 4 decks and 2mixers when i saw him and for the 1st time in my life i spent most of my time standing on the dancefloor watching in awe at this guy!!his scratching&tune selection is unbelieveable....hes one to definately watch in the future....hes been around a while but is only really getting noticed now as will other talented up&coming djs....i may be going a bit off the subject by mentioning pete loop but seriously watch out for him...also melodica promotions have some very tasty gigs coming up and there last 1 with james holden gig was supposed to be gig of the year so far hence why im defo checking him out 3rd august!!supposed to be the next sasha!....redbox may have let us down along with others but the new talent springing up is just as good.

[Bren Long]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Dance is dead.....maybe in the commercial clubs though.
There hasn't been much commercial dance releases of late, and the commercial end of the market is being flooded, nearly to the point of saturation, with RnB (even though it's not really RnB!!).
This is reflected by the demands of the average commercial club punter, who's musical tastes extend to whatever is being played on Top Of The Pops or MTV (whenever they play music, that is).

[Iano]

Hmmm, i suppose Lisa has got a point & as Bren says ''thers not any commercial dance being released so Tomcraft will be still the big tune until f**kin christmas .

Iano

[fox three]

Well if you want to start your own thread bout dance music go right ahead and dont hijack mine. OLDIES, OLDIES, OLDIES!!! Thats the way forward. Anywhoo, I looked downstairs at the front door to see if I got any mail. 6 different packages all from the record companies. Excellent! New music to play! Think again...... The only 'decent' tune and I use that term very loosely is Girls Aloud - Life got cold. Typical ballad crapola! And the picture on the front suggests that it was taken after they all finished drinking about an hour previously on the first day of their periods with zero sense of style. Im not gonna even comment on the other stuff I got!

[KJ]

So they looked a bit rough then I take it Fox? ;)

Anyway - we've talked about this RnB Diva crap tons of times now. Im playing Beyonce twice a night *and* extending it using the loop function on the Pioneers and the barbie girls still aint happy - maybe we should bring 2 copies to gigs and play it all night? lol

As a side note I started a gig outside Dublin recently and the response to dance is phenomanal. Guys, we just need to start playing non RnB stuff again - if the punters want it all night long they should go to a specialist club, simple as that

KJ

;)

[Iano]

The severe lack of good music means the only way to get a reaction on the floor is by putting an oldies set together ,and to be honest with ya , it always seems to work .

Just looking back up the thread , mentioning ,Fergie , and techno DJ's IS getting off the point and the thread is going in a different direction .

Just out of curiousity , are there any Dance clubs actually making money on more than one or two nights ?? .......Sorry Fox , i had to ask that one .

Iano .

[KJ]

Classic dance oldies or cheesy oldies Iano?

Just curious

[Iano]

Its easy to tell em to piss off to a specialist club kelly , and believe me , i have been very tempted to do it at times but id probably get the sack if i did .....

Dacne gigs making money ?? Traffic , Spirit , Red Box , Pod , .as opposed to mainstream clubs , which always in my view will still attract crowds and drinkers ...Even playin oldies ..

Iano



Iano

[KJ]

Speaking of that venue outside of the pail - the gig highlight for me at he weekend was seeing a thousand people going mad to Kylie's "Better The Devil ......" in the oldies (last 20 mins) bit of the night. Great tune, an even better crowd - they danced to anything I threw at them

Maybe Dubliners are just too narrowminded?

KJ

;)

[Iano]

Narrowminded YES.....but selfish and impatient is how id best describe most of them .
Thankfully i do get a reaction to most styles of music but dance music is not getting the reaction it used to .

Being asked for the same tune all night is starting to piss me off .

Iano .

[sub-site]

Which is worse -same track over and over or getting a desciption for a track that you just can't make out?

[KJ]

Maybe the jocks arent trying hard enough tho?

I heard 5 diff reports of a well known established Sunday night in a Southside club where the jock (a very much respected one) played RnB for all but 15 mins of his set. The punters I spoke to were bored out of their minds - 3 hours of RnB in a mainstream club is overkill

[Voyeur]

imo, they are not going to get to know or like any other tunes if beyonce and r kelly is all they hear all-nite! its "safe" music to play coz everyone will dance to it, myself included :o maybe its time to wean them off the commercial stuff, and start giving them new music to listen to??! :confused:

have to say i agree though, oldies are definitely the way forward! even the old dance music is streets ahead of some of the rubbish nowadays! bring back the 60's, 70's and 80's! *sniffle sniffle*
the jacksons sure new how to get people to boogie!! ;)

[Bren Long]

Originally posted by Ian Cribbin
.......but dance music is not getting the reaction it used to .


It's no wonder, when the commercial labels are putting out shite like Fast Food Rockers and the Cheeky Girls.

There was a similar phase in the early to mid nineties when 'novelty' dance records (Trip To Trumpton, Searching For My Rizzla, Tetris, Timmy Mallets version of Agadoo, etc) gained better chart positions than credible ones.

It always goes full circle though, and you'll see better quality filtering through soon enough.
Early 90's......some good dance music breaking through (Prodigy, 808 State, Orb, etc), followed by a phase of novelty dance tunes, then a wave of love songs in the mid 90s, followed by Britpop and indie rock dominating the charts by the end of the decade.
Early 00's......some decent dance tunes dominating the charts, followed by another wave of novelty dance records, followed by a wave of RnB (modern day love songs?) and some pop-rock..........see the pattern?

[KJ]

Well said Bren, these things always go in cycles ........... I just wish the RnB one would hurry up and die ;) (I love RnB, but I also love dance, like Pop and even a great Rock song now and again)

Maybe with great new dance tunes from Deepest Blue and Benny Benassi we're seeing the tide turning slightly. What still baffles me why these wannabe Divas (and lets be honest here guys, the ladies dictate the floor) dont go to the Vaults, Friday night Temple Theatre or any of the specialist nights (and there's loads) that will give them 4-5 hours of all the RnB they'll need. If they go to a mainstream venue (Club M, Playhouse, Boomerang, Q bar, Club Diva or whatever) why are they expecting 4 hours of a single genre (when there's nothing close to that of quality *mainstream* stuff at any one time)?

Maybe the problem here is mainstream club jocks not having the balls to take a risk

KJ

PS - No offence meant to the Sunday night jock above, its a sign of the times when 90% of your gig is RnB I suppose - I was just trying to highlight how bad things have got

[Iano]

Having the balls to take a risk is easier said than done Kelly ,especially when you risk losing the floor and having people leaving the club , believe me , ive seen it happen .

A lot of clubbers wont go to the Temple basically because it's a f**kin toilet and id prefer to have em at my gig anyway , even if they do want the same crap week in week out .

A lot of DJ's complain theres no decent dance music around anymore , i disagree , theres loads of it , it's just nobody wants to dance to it because the ''I wanna be Beyonce for a day '' idiots
cant see further than 2 or 3 songs and it wont give them an opportunity to show off their fake tan .

You mentioned DJ's not working hard enough , trying to find enough r&b to fill a night is hard work in itself , but i think i know what you mean .Try workin Club Diva for a night with only 2 speakers and a limiter that wont let you fart because it practically turns everything off .

I have started pulling out old dance , c&c music factory , Vanilla ice , Crystal Waters , Beatmasters , Rebel mc , etc etc , and im getting a reaction , so i suppose if you try , there is an alternative .

Apologise to Beyonce if she's reading this , i wasnt having a go at you , i think you a f**kin babe and im free on Mondays if you need a massage and i have recently taken lessons in gynacology .

Iano.

[Ice Pop Daddy]

To be fair to the guy you refer to working on sunday night Kelly, I work that venue too and dance is a big no no! It's just the crowd that go there and if you try anything different you're guaranteed to have some foul mouthed ill mannered slapper have a go at you.

Suggestion for the people you were talking to ; make a request the next time they attend the club and for gods sake get up and DANCE when the dj plays it!!!!

And yes Ian, there'a a hell of a lot of good dance stuff knocking around at the moment (you spend your days downloading it off the net ha ha ha) but the problem is it's not getting enough exposure. We don't have as many dance pirates as we did a few years back and the simple truth is it's just not in demand anymore.

I don't believe in shoving music that people don't want to listen to down people's throats and that's why I've eased up on dance. It hurts to do that because those of you that know me know my interest in dance but I'd rather have a full dancefloor and a decent crowd at my gigs than no one.

[Bren Long]

Originally posted by Ian Cribbin
Having the balls to take a risk is easier said than done Kelly ,especially when you risk losing the floor and having people leaving the club , believe me , ive seen it happen .

I hear you Ian.
It only takes one tune to empty the floor and have the fake tan fraternity leaving the club saying that you played "shite music" all night.

It's an unfortunate state of affairs when such a large proportion of a mainstream club DJ's work is entertaining the ignorant.

Ice Pop Daddy:
I see where you are coming from regarding the lack of dance airplay.
I think airplay has a good bit to do with the demand.
Your average mainstream punters knowledge of music will mainly stem from what they hear on commercial radio (discounting other sources like Top Of The Pops, MTV, etc).
The specialist dance shows are normally allocated to times when those punters are already out for the night, so they don't really get the opportunity to hear the new tunes available on the dance scene.
Their normal listening times mainly consist of a diet of pop and RnB, so that's all they are really familiar with, and they'll only demand what they regularly hear.

[fox three]

I changed the music around last week and the floor cleared, and I do mean fully cleared!! it really puts the shites up you when this happens especially when 30 secs earlier the punters were jumping in the floor singing 'woh, we're half way there, woh.....

[Iano]

Coming off the back of another thread and what we discussed ,can i just say , what a bunch of wankers i play to on a Wednesday night . I only really do it for the money because at the moment im driving a 1970 morris minor and i hope someday to upgrade to a .........1971 model .

Anyway , oldies night going along ok until i turned around and saw the faces of the usual knacker faced girls we tend to attract .
The look on their faces was as if i had just murdered their families , thinking now , i wish i had .

So being the crowd pleaser i am , i decided to give into their requests and play a bit of r&b .......Result ?? need you ask ..empty floor , they just stood there looking at each others tits dancing and not making my job very easy .....4 tunes later , 2 people dancing , i say 2 people , they were actually 2 p**cks pissed out of their heads and thanking their lucky stars the didnt have to drve a taxi tonight ....

My point ? f**k them and stick to whats working , even if they do have a mate who'll burn your car out and get you the next time your leaving an Aslan gig ...

Iano .

[max power]

well said ian, your there to provide a service to everyone and if that means telling someone no then so be it, you are a professional and know what music to play, you don't need some muppet telling you what to play (unless they are the one handing you the dosh ).

i am a believer in this simple ay of doing things, r n b is cack. i love oldies, they always work, 21st, wedding, party, pub, club where ever, at the mo i think the old 90's classics are the dogs, brings me back to the good old school days.

but some people just don't understand its an oldies night, a play some r n b, ah go on so just to pi** them off i say i will and i play some wilson pickett, aretha franklin arthur colney etc, real true r n b, and then dedicate it to them and it gets so far up their nose you would not believe, well thats enough of my ranting

[fox three]

Originally posted by Ian Cribbin
Coming off the back of another thread and what we discussed ,can i just say , what a bunch of wankers i play to on a Wednesday night . I only really do it for the money
Iano .

Yeah, but you also get to enjoy a wonderful evening in the company of Chalky and his F1 mags!! :D

[Iano]

Ermmm , wasnt that venue Fox .........Although i miss Chalkey and his F1 stories on a Wednesday night ...lol

[Ice Pop Daddy]

F1 stories are banned on wednesday nights!

[KJ]

One thing I notice is that those in their mid 20's are less narrow-minded (I risked L.A. Style - Im Raving on Friday.......... cheesy as hell but went down a treat), whereas those in their late teens are only into one genre (usually RnB)

How did we get on this weekend guys? Id a thousand on Friday, a shite Saturday and a capacity crowd on Sunday (usual Bank Holiday scenario)

KJ



PS - Ian & Ice Pop: your points have been duly noted ;)

[KJ]

Note: threads merged due to common theme (i.e. club jocks unrequited love for RnB Divas ;))

[Iano]

Friday .....not bad

Saturday.......ok but not great

Sunday......V. good

Monday .....Was good but very young , a bit like being at a party in R.Kelly's house ......

[Turiel]

Friday empty, Saturday empty, Sunday empty. Blah.

[Iano]

Jesus Tuirel where were you working ? Liberia ?

[KJ]

lol!

[Al Murray]

Its V weird alright because although R&B has become very mainstream, the R&B clubs don't do that well! I think its because although mainstream as it is the punters want to hear the likes of Nelly and fu**in Kelly (which i smashed live on air) and most of the R&B jocks just wont play that sh**e.

All you gotta do is listen to the likes of BBC One Extra online and you will hear what most of the R&B clubs are playing and now it comes back to the whole "if they dont know it, they wont dance" thang.

Maybe if more DJ's played less mainstream R&B it wouldn't become so repetitive. The first time i played In The Club (march 03), the floor cleared!

[Iano]

Glad and almost at the point of hysteria to finally see a negative reaction to the worst f***in tune of the year .
Yes , nobody could dance to ''Sean Paul & Blue Cantrell '', ..They finally realised this is not a tune you can have fun to , and have the same impact as Beyonce or Justin T.......

Bring back Shaggy . all is forgiven .........

Iano .......

[sub-site]

I don't gig but I happened to be just thinking last night that the R 'n' B's original appeal isn't actually there any more... was it 99 when it was became something really new and different? Now it's 4 years on... I've heard it say fashions change every 4 years or so. (whether it's true or not???)

Even this time last year it definately had it's appeal (for me at least)... it's just not there any more in my opinion.

[Turiel]

Well, it looks like dancehall/ragga is going to be the new trend over here, it's already huge in the states and getting big over in the UK as well. So I think we'll be seeing a lot more of the likes of Sean Paul, Lumidee, Wayne Wonder, etc. Incidently though Ian, Shaggy's been releasing songs every couple of months ever since "It Wasn't Me". His next release in a couple of weeks is a collaboration with Chaka Khan, called 'Get My Party On'.

[DeargDoom]

Oddly enough I was gigging in a city centre venue on Friday and they went nuts for Blu Cantrell/Sean Paul. Steaming pile of cack that it is.

[The Big Gig]

Was playing Lumidee - Never leave you on, on fri and some wench comes up and says when you going to play some good up to date RnB aaaaagggghhhhhhhhh!!!

Breathe went down pretty well for me!!

[KJ]

Note: Threads merged due to common theme

Re: "Breathe" - the jury's still out on it for me but Im gonna watch how they dance to it tonight Ian cos, as you hinted at, there doesnt seem to be a solid driving kick drum for them to get their groove on to


KJ

;)

[Iano]

It worked for me tonight , fell on it's arse last night and did just ok on Friday ......As Kelly pointed out , theres nothing happening on the tune and to me it's just another boring piece of adultrated shite welcomed by anybody who has a huge arse and cant dance anyway ......
All we need now is for DJ Bobo to get huge airplay and f**k the whole summer up[whats left of it ].....

Iano ...ps ...Anybody watch Chelsea today ?? Ahhhh now im feeling better....

[Sam Lowry]

Hey all,
A BRILLIANT thread that kept me reading for ages... As a sometime club jock myself let me have my 2 cents:

In most mainstream clubs most of the punters crave one thing universally - familiarity.

Part of the reason they all expect you to play RnB all the time these days is the saturation of the charts, radio and TV with it! Genuinely if there were more dance tunes turning up in the mainstream charts then the balance would be more even.

How many mainstream dance tunes of '03 are floorfillers? 5? 6? Maybe? Unfortunately dance has been fading from the mainstream for a while now and the product just isn't there. Contrast that with how many RnB tunes have been played off the radio this year!

Some of the suggestions above though are dead on - it's not your job to educate somewhere like that. Just play what they want to hear, take the brown envelope and feck off out to your car CD player for the trip home!

It's easy to point the finger at "lazy" jocks but from the punters and owners point of view your job is to keep the floor filled all night long by any means necessary! You could try your best to break new music or play what you think is great but if the punters walk then you'll be out of a gig before too long.

In a way it's just like bein on the radio... You may get sick and tired of playing Beyonce 3 times a day but it pays the ESB bill :-)

Having said that I gig outside Dublin and some of the tales you guys have told about clubbers there sound particularly horrific. In boggerland you can get away with almost anything in a mainstream club and it does take the pressure off...

Peace to all,

Sam

[Turiel]

Well, its time for the usual post-weekend rant, and guess what? I had a GOOD weekend! Seriously :P

Thu, Fri, Sat were all busy and they all danced to a decent range of music, not just R&B and the usual pop crap. Yay.

Ok, one little mini-rant :P

Justin Timberlake - Senorita. Why oh why do girls insist on singing BOTH parts of the breakdown?!? It defeats the whole purpose of the thing, do they not even listen to what they're saying in the song?!? The guys fare slightly better... most of them just stand on the floor with blank expressions on their face, but the ones that do sing along just do the guy part.

[walshie]

lol Turiel

I was out the other night doing a Salsa gig and I still got asked for Justin. When I told the punter it was Salsa and Latin vibes she said I was very strict. Hmmmmm

[Pistol]

I was djing in a club in the southeast on thursday night. Strange night, it was quietier than usual and they wouldn't budge to any r'n'b track i had. Kinda got desperate and played Justin, Beyonce, 50 Cent and more. It wasn't until i played The White strippes that they started dancing. Played a bit more rock, then dance, then more r'n'b and the dance floor emptied.

Needless to say that i gave them plenty more dance and oldschool for the rest of the night....

Only problem is that the club has a chilled r'n'b, house and chart music policy. Therefore im just wondering, is it better to keep the managers happy and the croud not dancing or the croud dancing and the managers unhappy? There is no point in having a happy croud if you don't have a gig anymore...

What do you think???

[walshie]

Good question Pistol. Unless it's a defined niche gig it is when your doing Salsa or whatever, if a night is going bad I just say F**k it and go with the reliables so people will go home happy no matter what the gig is. Trick is, having enough old reliables of different genres (and the talent) to do it at will.

[KJ]

:frust:



Played 4 production/collaborations by the guy last night spread out over a 4 hour gig and, while every one of them filled the floor, I think he's going down the same route as Ja Rule did last year - too much of a good/bad thing

Word to yer Ma

Etc


KJ

;)


PS - the 4 were "Baby Boy" (with Beyonce), 'Like Glue", "Breathe" (with Blu Cantrell) and "Get Busy"

[DarraghRoberts]

I remember all those years ago when I used to love DJing, dance around the DJ box, break into a sweat, burn out the bulbs in the strobes, and generally have a fantastic buzz. Totally from a commercial point of view.

Then we got RnB, and a new range of dancers of the 'Christina Click' and 'Beyonce Brigade' Wheres the sweat, the flawless mixing, the buzz, atmosphere..... GONE!

I write these comments becasuse last Sunday night I rediscovered what it is to be a DJ. A real commercial dance DJ. The usual supects of RnB were not working, even the oldies were getting a lack lustre response. So I tried a different appraoch.

Robert Miles - Children
Mauro Picotto - Proximus
Safri Duo - Played Alive
Darude - Sandstorm
Ian Van Dahl - Castles in the sky
I played more and I cant remember what they were now. So I urge you to dig out the songs from the past 5 years and see how your crowd reacts, because if you get the same reaction that I did, it will make this DJing lark fun again, and it STILL beats working for a living.