Affordable ADSL In Ireland (Will it ever happen?)

[KJ]

I was thinking of getting Eircom's "i Stream" installed despite it been very pricey (you can see it here .......... http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/mouse/index.html)

Has anyone on the board got it yet? What do you think of it so far?

Are there any other options?

Cheers

KJ

;)

[Brian O'D]

I agree. It is very pricey, but the lure of fast net access is too much!

I read somewhere in an article on this that NTL's high speed internet access is now available in Ireland, but have no other details. If it didn't take an hour or more to get through, I'd ring them.

[KJ]

Hi Brian,

I had a look at NTL and gave them a ring. After, *eventually* getting through I was met by a rather obnoxious unhelpful chap who informed me "I wasn't living in the right area" or something to get it. I know this is true of ADSL, i.e. only certain areas can get it, but I got the feeling that the telephonist/sales rep in question wasn't arsed and wanted to go off and have a cup of tea or something ;) (Irish telephone sales reps could do worse then learn a few things from the peeps at Sky)

Unless there's another option I'll probably end up going with the i Stream option Brian as (is typical of Ireland) I don't have any other choice!

KJ

;)

[Brian O'D]

What are you talking about Kelly, of course you have another choice...emigrate:o

[Darren B]

Well Im in the right area for the NTL ASDL and they are installing it for me in tow weeks time. €35 a month aint that expensive either well worth the money I say.

[Guest]

Yeah,

I pay €36 a mth, and it was €180 instalation over here in Gran Canaria. I wouldn't call that expensive.

Tony.

[KJ]

What areas IS NTL ADSL availible in Dublin?? They are very vaugue about the whole thing. There's no way EircoN are getting that kind of bread off me!

[Darren B]

Kelly best thikn is to ring them up and see if youre in the right area.

Mainly on the southside AFAIK though

[KJ]

Rang NTL again and got through to an operator with some manners this time. She called out the postal codes which their 512 connection is availible to and alas mine isn't one of time. She also confirmed that it will be next year untill NTL consider the rest (mostly North) of Dublin.

EircoN will have to stop taking the p*ss with these prices surely??! :rolleyes:

KJ

[Darren B]

EircoN will keep the prices the way they are until they have competition. If people are willing to pay it they will leave it as it is. When NTL cable becomes available all over Dublin then it will be a different story,.

Cheap ADSL all around I hope

[Guest]

Two months ago (could be three) I applied for the Eircom DSL trial only to be told that my line was not up to it. Recently there have been dozens of those neternia Vans floating around my area fiddling with manholes and stuff. So about 2 weeks ago they started calling my house about the "expression of interest" I had shown in the DSL product. So I called them on Friday last and they said that they had put a line test on my line into the queue. I called Mon/Tue/Wed and today. Eventuallly I got the results to my test which for once I am glad to say are positive. So I've signed up for the 512 down 128 up. Couldn't resist it really. €89 + VAT a month. I know it's expensive but half a megabit downloads on a PC in your bedroom in Dublin Ireland. I'd spend that on a night out guzzling carlsberg.... I'll let you know how I get on!... with the DSL that is not the Carlsberg..

[cdonelan]

Has anyone who has either NTL cable modem or Eircom DSL tried testing it with DSL reports?

http://speedtest.dslreports.com

I'd love to know how they perform, especially how consistent the connections are.

[DarrinWard]

Let me rub it in for you guys...

Back in Florida, I have a T3 direct into my place .. Thats 43 Megs/second, somewhat 86 times faster than DSL..

On another note, is DSL only ?35 per month as Darren B says above? I thoght it was 100+ .. either way, its a rip off .. They still have DSL in the USA but people really dont pay the prices that get paid here for things, as there are so many companies over there in competition, you can usually find a good deal.

[Turiel]

NTL ADSL? Surely you mean cable modem? Eircom are the only company doing ADSL at the moment but Esat are looking to start rolling it out in the near future.

Eircom told me they'd install ADSL in my house about a month ago. Sure enough, they did install it, albeit a couple of hours late. However, AFTERWARDS, they said they had forgotten to do a line test on it and my line isnt actually suitable for it, and they are sorry for the inconvenience.

http://www.irelandoffline.ie
http://www.boards.ie/irelandoffline

These guys have been campaigning for cheap internet access for the past year or two, and quite possibly without them, we wouldnt even have the limited form of ADSL that we do now. Go to their website. Sign up. If you care about decent internet access in Ireland, then its your duty ;)

[Arnold]

RTE joining Sky will bring down the cost of high speed internet access.

The logic runs like this.

RTE on Sky means that NTL, Chorus et-al have now got serious competition for customers who previously wouldn't have deserted cable and lost RTE but might easily desert if all they loose is UTV and CH4 and they get loads of other stuff on Sky too.

The cable companies response is finally to roll out digital cable at some sort of speed to head off mass defections, one of the side effects of digital cable is that you can stick cable modems on it and have high speed internet access.

Meanwhile over at Eircom Towers they are trying to sort out an ADSL strategy. It cost them lots of money to install the equipment in exchanges and what with new bosses in place they have to try and recoup the costs, so the official stategy is charge high while you can.

As the cable companies upgrade their cabling the the competitive strain becomes greater, Eircom will finally give in, but only at the last minuite.

Things are also brewing at Maxwell Mansions where Sky are testing their internet solution, downlink through your dish at Gigabit speeds with the return path through the phone line.

There will be tears yet.

[KJ]

How did you get on Stephen?

Ive just handed over a shocking amount of money towards the phone bill .......... I think I'd either be better off going with the (disgustingly overcharged) Eircom option or start buying CD singles again (perish the thought)

Anyone else using Eircom's I Stream? (Im not in the right postal code for NTL's option)


KJ

;)

[NoelRock]

I've had an unbelievable saga with eircom and i-stream over the last six months...

If I had known this thread existed on radiowaves before I'd've been all over it.

Anyway (!) it looks like the 'nice' men from eircom will be out on Friday the 13th (September) to install it for...the fourth time now.

Like the guy on the phone said, omnious date.

--- If you need more intel on the situation - like someone mentioned before me, Ireland Offline is THE place to go :).

And Arnold - you're so oversimplifying the whole scenario. Rolling out cable internet will cost tens of millions of euro - and NTL just filed for bankruptcy, so we're not exactly their highest priority.

KJ - Wait and see what Esat's DSL offering will be like at the end of 2002*... it looks better than eircom's anyway, uncapped access for 90 euro. Not great but it's an improvement.

*= Now available in Limerick, for some bizarre reason Dublin is a good bit down the pecking order - can you say 'cartel'?

Oh, and just to make you smile: http://www.errorcom.com

[Arnold]

Noel,

Your right in saying I over simplified, I was more trying to paint a picture of how the dynamics of change in the communications game can be driven by unforseen and apparently unconnected events.

I still stand by the general thrust of what I said in that it is competition from Sky that is driving the roll-out of digital cable, just listen to the radio ad's, and that cable modems are an extension of that roll-out. While NTL are undoubtedly screwed for cash at the moment they are tying to hold on to customers and high speed internet access is one of the points of differentiation of their offering over the Sky package.

BTW I don't think NTL have filed for bankruptcy, they may however have filed for what the US calls Chapter Eleven which precludes debtors from burying a company while it attempts to trade its way out of difficulties.

Let us know how you get on with your ADSL, I'm holding off until I find someone who has successfully networked ADSL access in Ireland for themselves without spending a fortune.

Has anyone out there got their ADSL connections coming in on a different modem than the standard 'Manta-Ray' or tried out the D-link ADSL router?

[NoelRock]

Has anyone out there got their ADSL connections coming in on a different modem than the standard 'Manta-Ray' or tried out the D-link ADSL router?

Try boards.ie with that question.

[Arnold]

Much thanks for that Noel, never been there before.

[KJ]

Is NTL digital cable thingy still restricted to certain postal codes?

[Arnold]

Yep, very much so, though you'ld never think it from the radio ad's. (Advertising Standards?????)
You can ring them and ask whether your area is covered, in Dublin it tends to be the newer areas that are OK, I was told last year that it could be a three year wait where I am!

[KJ]

What other option is there then? Eircom I Stream is still not worth the bread IMHO


KJ

[Arnold]

I fear we just have to wait 'til we see some competition from ESAT to drive pricing down.

In the mean time a couple of things to consider.

Could you share an ADSL connection with a neighbour, it's fairly easy share internet access in later versions of Windows.

Is your existing modem and connection doing a good job. In most areas of Dublin you should get a connection of 44 or better. A standard modem breaks up the signal into four bands and will drop a band if quality is low, the better modems re-test and pick-up again faster and more often than the cheaper ones. If you have a HSP or HSF modem consider replacing it.

[NoelRock]

If you're in the city centre - another solution would be satellite access ^_^

[Bananas]

1. Way of getting cheap fast net...

I have a 2mb/sec connection (one way) at home and it only costs me 150euro a year, all you need is a sattelite dish approx 100cm a universal lnb and a card that goes into your pc (E150) You connect the usual way (dial up) and download using the sattelite. You can see europeonline if you turn your digi dish to 19.2 and tund the digibox...

http://www.europeonline.com/image/technical_info/diagram_transmission.gif

2. Another way of getting cheap fast net...

Go to college... :)

visit www.europeonline.com for details on the 2mb/sec connection its pretty cool!!! :D

[NoelRock]

I'm beginning to consider this along with UTV IP's (utvip.com) surfing package - 150 hours a month online @ 30 euro - then 0.95 cent thereafter. 25% of all calls with comparison to eircom. 64k ISDN support as standard, and for an extra 10 euro a month - you get daytime access for 1.8 cent.

Cool enough, eh?

[Bananas]

But its slow right?

[NoelRock]

Supposedly - yes. But pings are only *vital* to gamers, and on their free accounts I still get 49,000 bps on average (54,000 max) which is fairly good for a 56k modem since 56k is a theoretical upper limit that'll never be touched.

When routing issues are sorted I expect the pings to go down slightly.. however if you're not into that - EsatBT are running a 120 hour service for 35 euro with no phone discounts.

[Bananas]

Supposedly - yes. But pings are only *vital* to gamers

Hmm... i suppose thats me! But europeonline is no good for games so i dont use it for that, it isint much better for surfing either but where the 2mb/sec comes in handy is when you have to download the latest patch for half life or unreal tourney, like a 45mb patch done in seconds for you - fantastic! I have ISDN at home anyways so im not too bad off (ISDN on the sly too :) )

That esat thing sounds good but what happens when you run over your 120 hours, you can't use it or do they charge you a fortune???

[NoelRock]

I'm not entirely sure - I think it may be 1.27 cent from there.

Bear in mind (if I didn't mention before) the 120 hours on Esat and 150 hours on UTV apply to *off peak* only - that's 6pm to 8am on weekdays and all day on weekends and public holidays folks. :)

Yeah, europe online stinks for (a ) gaming and (b ) broadcasting over the internet - ISDN is probably the best nationwide solution to b right now...

ADSL is out for me - eircom have called my line a very unique case, while it's showing up as a 'pass' on their tests - when push comes to shove, the line just isn't working ^_^ the point even came up at a meeting as to 'why' - which makes me feel special.

[Bananas]

had esat "No Limits" a few years ago when there actually was an unlimited off peak service for a flat rate price of £20 a month and it stank big-time!!! Personally i wouldn't trust esat with feeding the cat! It was almost impossible to connect to, i mean at 6 o' clock you'd start connecting and it'd try and try and try and when you had finished your dinner you might be one of the fortunate ones who had managed to connect, it was bloody slow!

Im just imagining esats new set up being the very same, 10's of thousands of kids signed up to it clogging the network until its static - hmm im beginning to think the more expensive, the less people, the better the connection and i dont go insane!

ISDN at the moment is the thing to have, i happen to have the best of both worlds - ISDN and a fast way of downloading + i dont get charged for my ISDN :) So its E150 a year for me and i have pretty good net!

[NoelRock]

Yeah - I remember Surf No Limits, it was one of my first big internet memories...

(150 a year, under 15 a month for europe online? Niiiiice - is there a cap on that though?)

[Bananas]

(150 a year, under 15 a month for europe online? Niiiiice - is there a cap on that though?)

What do you mean? Hmm... gotta go now, the cinema awaits - finish this 2moro :)

[Turiel]

Originally posted by NoelRock
[B]Supposedly - yes. But pings are only *vital* to gamers, and on their free accounts I still get 49,000 bps on average (54,000 max) which is fairly good for a 56k modem since 56k is a theoretical upper limit that'll never be touched.


Uh, you do realise that 49,000 is not a ping rate? Its the speed you connect at!

To find your ping rate, you need to actually "ping" a host, using the windows command line or a downloaded program.

eg:


ping www.eircom.net

Pinging www.eircom.net [159.134.237.56] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 159.134.237.56: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=60
Reply from 159.134.237.56: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=60
Reply from 159.134.237.56: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=60
Reply from 159.134.237.56: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=60


See the part that says "time=70ms"? Thats the important part. For gaming, you need to have an under 200ms (pref under 150) average ping for any sort of decent performance. Its very hard to play todays games on a standard dialup connection (which is what Esat NoLimits and UTV's package is). In reality, you need ISDN at a minimum, and ideally cable or ADSL.

(and yes, I have ADSL, which is why my pings are so low. Go me)

[KJ]

Um, Im a tad confused now, lol

Still ...........

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(150 a year, under 15 a month for europe online? Niiiiice - is there a cap on that though?)


sounds good

KJ

[Turiel]

With europe online you have to pay for the Satellite access (150 a year, 15 a month) PLUS you have to pay your normal modem charges. The only thing europe online is good for is downloading large files.

[Bananas]

Pinging radiowaves.com [207.167.68.13] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 207.167.68.13: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=231
Reply from 207.167.68.13: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=231
Reply from 207.167.68.13: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=231
Reply from 207.167.68.13: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=231

Ping statistics for 207.167.68.13:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 200ms, Maximum = 231ms, Average = 210ms

Mines faster, nah na na nah naa!

[Bananas]

Actually its a hell of a lot slower! Does it depend on what you ping? I'll have another go...

[Bananas]

Pinging www.bananas.com [64.60.182.114] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.60.182.114: bytes=32 time=200ms TTL=41
Reply from 64.60.182.114: bytes=32 time=220ms TTL=41
Reply from 64.60.182.114: bytes=32 time=210ms TTL=41
Reply from 64.60.182.114: bytes=32 time=201ms TTL=41

Ping statistics for 64.60.182.114:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 200ms, Maximum = 220ms, Average = 207ms

Yup that answers my question...

[NoelRock]

"ISDN at the moment is the thing to have,"

Did you know that ISDN technology is 21 years old and phonelines in Germany have it as standard :P?

Yet eircom fob it off as new - realistically everywhere else in the world ADSL or cable are the things to have, but we are being screwed over when it comes to them. Utterly disgraceful.

[John Fleming]

Originally posted by Bananas
Pinging radiowaves.com [207.167.68.13] with 32 bytes of data:

Mines faster, nah na na nah naa!

I hope you let the good folks at radiowaves.com know ;)

Meantime welcome to radiowaves.fm (and sub-site: radiowavesforum.com)

[NoelRock]

'(which is what Esat NoLimits and UTV's package is).'

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. - UTV's package supports single channel ISDN (64k) as standard, and if you take out two subscriptions they'll do dual-channel ISDN (128k) *shakes head slowly*

Turiel - you're hardly in good company, currently there are 1,100 adsl subscribers in Ireland :-\.

I can't get it sadly - not the price, but apparently my line doesn't work. Fiddlesticks.

[NoelRock]

(Note: Good one John ;))

[KJ]

What is a ping?

Is that like a Pong only better with hair extensions?

Im conflustered guys


KJ

[Bananas]

No wonder it was all f*** up (radiowaves.com)

Good ping outta bananas.com though!!!

[NoelRock]

Just an update: Apparently UTV IP's pings are doing amazing work now - of course I can't confirm myself, but on 64k ISDN the pings are as low as 45.

[KJ]

Im still waiting to know wait the hell a *ping* is ;)


Here's something my mate is trying to get me to part my cash with ................

Click HERE (http://www.broadband.digiweb.ie/presales_faq.asp)

And .............

HERE (http://www.broadband.digiweb.ie/pricing.asp)

for pricing etc


Very expensive, but no limits like Eircom's Istream (Turiel, I believe your last bill was a nightmare?)


KJ

;)

[Arnold]

Packet INternet Groper is the official line, don't believe it though.

[Peadar]

Southside? Last time i checked Ballinteer isn't included.

I've got the 64K ISDN service at the minute n i'm signing up for 128K access for things like downloading MP3's n the like. I don't plan on keeping the ISDN though - i'll ditch it once NTL get their act together.

[Turiel]

To understand the ping, you must first become one with the ping. Only then may you achieve true enlightenment.

And yes, my bill sucked.

[KJ]

"i'll ditch it once NTL get their act together"


NTL do DSL yeah? But not citywide at the moment?? Dontcha just hate been a Northsider :rolleyes:


KJ

;)

[Turiel]

NTL do cable, which is usually preferable to DSL, but both have their pro's and cons...

[KJ]

"Cable" I meant .............. they do a decent package but in very limited postal codes


KJ

:)

[Turiel]

Yeah, it's a conspiracy, they only want suburbs beginning with 'T'... Terenure, Templeogue, Tallaght.

[KJ]

lol

I wonder will they ever get the finger out for the rest of the city.

Did you find that humongous bill of yours was worth the tunes you DL'd Turiel?


KJ

;)

[NoelRock]

The grapevine says that we'll never see NTL expanding their network now - it's not deemed viable, and since NTL Ireland is under control of NTL 'UK and Ireland' - guess who'll be getting preference when cable starts being rolled out again...

"NTL do cable, which is usually preferable to DSL, but both have their pro's and cons..."

Hm. Most people I talk to claim they're happier with their DSL over their cable - I'm not gonna lay my own opinion here since I don't have either.

ESB could be the dark horse in this race, they have laid/are laying a loop of fibre all across Ireland - it should be completed in Late 2003, now all you need is a backbone provider (i.e. Nevada - eircom wouldn't touch it) to rent some bandwidth, and we will be flying children.

[Turiel]

Thats not even the thing Kelly! If I had downloaded lots of tunes and exceeded my cap (3gbs) I'd say fair enough. In fact, I did exceed my cap. I've downloaded about 10gbs. But eircom haven't charged me for it! (yet). It's all rentals and installation fees from my bill...

[NoelRock]

Yeah Tur... no charges for downloads... yet.

Rumour has it that (a. ) Eircom haven't finalised the billing system yet and (b.) frankly they aren't in a rush, only 1,200 subscribers thus far - they aren't exactly dying out there...

[Peadar]

So basically if you leave your PC on all the time like I do you could have downloads going permanently 24hrs a day over cable / dsl and not pay any more than normal (assuming you had the hard disk space to hold everything!!)

[Turiel]

Yes, I suppose so.

I have a Bad Feeling (tm) though that Eircom will eventually back-charge us for the extra bandwidth...

[KJ]

Just worked out that Im averaging about 120 yo yo's a month for my net bill which is not bad for the amount of tunes I download, yet this is using a standard 56k dial-up.

Has anyone got any DSL north Dublin updates?


KJ

;)

[Anti-Christ]

NTL will be forced by the ODTR to cover at the very least the entire county of Dublin. Idea being that they were awarded a licence to do it over someone else so they gotta finish the job.
When though, is the million €€€€ question!!

On a tangent, for people trying to get through to NTL's freephone number that takes a few hours, there's another contact in the phone book for them, got through on that straight away after trying the 1800 number for a few days and just giving up each time....

[NoelRock]

Has anyone got any DSL north Dublin updates?

DSL is hooked up on virtually every North Dublin exchange now, the problem is that since we're using a victorian style network that is in EXTREMELY bad condition, many lines are failing.

Antichrist - NTL are no longer under that agreement and as of now, have no plans to upgrade any further this year.

[KJ]

I should have been more precise

Has anyone got any *reasonably priced* DSL north Dublin updates? :p


KJ

;)

[NoelRock]

Esat - 256k - 60 euro per month, on the way Dublinwide by Jan 2003/Dec 2002 apparently.

:)

[NoelRock]

The exchanges are all upgraded turiel. All they need to do is give the product final clearance.

Pages have been spotted on the esatbt site relating to it - and esat have confirmed it is in the works.

Let me think - oh, it's uncapped too. Regretting that eircom tripe yet turiel?

[Turiel]

I dunno, my account has been 'terminated' for the last 2 weeks with Eircom cause I haven't paid my bill but I still have my net connection. Dunno what the story is, but its obviously not disconnected even though eircom claim it is! So I'm getting service for free at the moment, not really regretting anything yet :)

[Peadar]

Lol when I got my ISDN they managed to mess up the billing so i ended up having a whole month of free net access and telephone calls. Not bad! ;)

[KJ]

Last night I chatting to a member in the room while he managed to download a tune @192kps in less then 2 mins (!)

Feckin' southsiders! ;)


Anyone got any updates for us howeya Northsiders?


KJ

;)

[Peadar]

Was it cable or DSL? That gang at NTL don't do cable in Ballinteer :(

[KJ]

Eircom I Stream is now half price

See HERE (http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/showContentSubPage.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@ 1028593415.1050303993@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadchceljfjdbedcfjgchgcghk.0&cid=IntroRes&site=Res&chanId=-536882597&storeChanId=-536882597) for more


KJ

;)

[KJ]

Hmmmmmmmmm, decisions, decisions

EsatBT are doing something similar, you get the modem free and an extra 1Gb to download a month

Eircom just generally suck overall IMHO so this might be the best option

See HERE (http://register.iol.ie/broadband/index.html) for more


KJ

;)

[John Fleming]

I posed this question before but got no response...somebody must know :-)

I listen to a lot of streaming radio, plus i do a lot of uploading - obviously. Do these count towards the overall limit - and if so, how much would streaming audio bite into it?

I registered for the EsatBT option a few weeks ago, but i've heard absolutely nothing back. You'd think they'd at least thank potential customers for their interest. Compare that to Eircom, who cab be very helpful with stuff like this...or maybe that's just my experience.

[Ryan Phillips]

I dunno John

A better plan seems to be up sticks and move to Templeogue and have the nice chaps at NTL pop out and install you an auld cable modem!! You'd get a nice semi detached house with a respectably sized swimming pool for the price you'll probably end up paying for your internet!!! Limits on what you can download indeed....

Ryan:D

[John Fleming]

LOL

Problem is, contacting ntl customer support puts major limits on my patience...

[Turiel]

Hmm... I download an avg of 7gb a month and upload 3-4gbs. Have been doing so for the past year. Eircom don't seem to charge for going above your limit!

--Turiel, who in 5 years time will probably get a phone bill of backcharges for €10k.

[KJ]

Anyone hear anything about another company called Via?

[Turiel]

Via Networks have been around for years and years, the company has been sold a couple of times, I think its called Netsource now.

According to their website they're offering broadband for €45 p/m. Reading up on it on IrelandOffline, they still seem to be in talks with Eircom and haven't provided the service to anybody yet.

Here's a thead:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=92927&highlight=netsource+broadband