Shane McGowan

[Peadar]

McGowan's name came up in the Joe Strummer thread but i didn't thought it better to put this in a new thread:

Is he fit to be viewed as a musical ambassador for ireland?

Last time I would have seen him play live would have been in mid September when he played the UCD Fresher's ball. Because of the fact that's not good on his feet at all and that the bottle has taken it's toll, his stage presence ain't great. I wouldn't have said that set (or any of the other acts apart from Aslan) was the best gig ever by any means, and I imagine that this latter image of McGowan is the only one which a lot of people can identify with.

However, it seems that in his post in the Joe Strummer thread Ian Cribbin has forgotten that Shane McGowan is (or maybe more correctly was) also a very gifted composer. No McGowan would have meant No Fairytale of New York. One only has to look at top ten christmas charts in ireland and in the UK and that song still tops an overwhelming number of them. Personally if it were a top up between the talentless manufactured Westlife (rant mode on!) and Mr. McGowan, i would probably choose the latter assuming it fitted the mood.

What's everyone's take on him? Would you play him? Is he a suitable image for Irish music abroad?


happy christmas everyone!

....... rant mode off!

:)

[DeargDoom]

I think Shane is/was a very talented singer/songwriter who ended up as a sad parody of himself. Theres no doubting the excitement of his early pogues recordings (rum sodomy and the lash era).

He is a man who seems to have taken a lot of bad advice in his life. Last time I saw him was in a bar after hours where people were throwing pints into him. Not the sort of thing you should do to an alcoholic. The Irish are a particularly two faced nation regarding that sort of thing. George Bests wife has often spoken about people offering her husband a drink despite Bests medical problems being well publicised.


Without a doubt Shane is a very bright man. You can trace his musical background right back to the Sex Pistols and the Bromley Contingent scene of the mid 1970s. John Lydon writes about seeing McGowan in his union jack t-shirt at sex pistols gigs, then seeing him 4 years later with a tri-colour t-shirt!


More trad musicians despised the Pogues and Shane McGowan when they started out. Just like the way they slated Horslips in the late 60's/early 1970s for combining modern rock sounds with trad music. And just like Horslips, the Pogues opened up "irish heritage" to a large young audience, something that many years of teaching Peig in secondary schools would never do!

The fact that McGowan has been involved in the 1970s punk scene brought a certain sound to the band. He wasn't the only one, Spider had been a long time member of seminal Irish punk band "the Radiators".


The Pogues also managed to avoid the moronic pro-IRA sentiments that others would be guilty of (Wolfe Tones). This could be due to McGowans early interest in Irish politics.

Its hard to remember now, but for a time in the mid 1980s, the Pogues were up there with bands like Simple Minds and U2 for popularity in this country. Simple Minds eventually disappeared up their own asses, McGowan disappeared in a haze of boozy late nights, and U2 disappeared to the Arizona desert but came back with The Joshua Tree.


What next for McGowan? The morons have their drunken stage Irishman to worship, while those who regard him as a one the bright lights of his generation look on in sadness.

DD

[Iano]

Theres no duobt ''Fairytale of New York '' , is a great xmas song when your pissed and , ok , it's popular with mose people but McGowan hasn't a note in his head , he's up there with Ronnie Drew and Luke Kelly .
As a songwriter ?? one half decent song hardly makes you a ledgend .
Im sorry but i cant ever identify him as an irish hero , fiddles , accordians and a bowran ?? sorry but no thanks .

Just my opinion thats all.

[NoelRock]

Did anyone see him on TV on christmas eve? My goodness... that scared me...

Shane McGowan is a washed up shadow of himself - there is no way that he should be considered some kind of Irish musical legend, I'd nearly rather give that title to Ronan Keating than him right now.

[Mister807]

Hello all,

Just to agree with what Dearg said about Shane McGowan. It is without doubt that the man has been a musical genius but the state he is in now, is testament not only to years of hard living but the frankly barmy attitude we have to alcoholism in this country.

I saw Shane with the Popes earlier this year, and it was indeed sad to see him, but despite that, the lyrics are still so strong, and his influence will live on long after he no doubt will.

Apart from our alcoholic hypocricy in this charming nation, it also upsets me to see people condemning him for the state he is in now. Do we intend to judge people by the state they eventually reach or by what they have achieved? Do we similarly condemn Alex Higgins despite what he achieved, likewise Brendan Behan? Up to us to decide.

Mister 807

[DeargDoom]

this is an interesting one. Ian, McGowan is certainly not a good vocalist in the most conservative sense of the word, but then again neither is David Bowie, or Prince, or Bono.

One of my favourite songs is "Haunted" sung by Sinead O Connor and Shane McGowan (don't think its their song though ... it was orginally from the soundtrack to Sid and Nancy). Sineads pure voice conflicts beautifully with McGowans. Theres a moment where he slurs out the words "When I first saw you, you were so cool you could've put out Vietnam". Thats just magic.

Failing that listen to the b.ollix behind "Sally McLennane" - that song rocks like a hammock on the titanic.

Irish trad music shouldn't be classified as some dull lifeless culchie moron genre. Sadly, many years of folk music snobbery by the likes of RTE means that only the really limp lifeless stuff ever gets heard. The additional curse of irish/americans buying "new age" Enya CDs by the million doesn't help.

When the state came into being in the early 1920s, folk music was hijacked by Church and State and made "respectable". Up until then it was considered dirty, primeval music performed by and appreciated by scumbags only (kinda the way early punk was considered, and early dance music!). Around the same time as the State thought that Peig would be the booster the Irish language needed they also thought that irish music should be pure and lifeless and sexless. They very nearly succeeded


Finally, as for the bodhran gombeen brigade? Scourge of our country. Sh.itebags like the Wolfe Tones and the Irish Brigade have once again dragged irish folk music down. Not unlike the way certain dance promoters helped destroy the dance scene in Dublin. Thats a debate for a different day though!

[RadioFriend]

He is/was one of the most amazing and talented singer/songwriters of our time.

A musical genius...A Bob Dylan, A Clifford T Ward a Joni Mitchell.

You will also notice that the above are not great singers but nobody can sing their songs but them.

Shane like all the greats is a storyteller.

Young,Fogelberg,Ellis Paul,Janis Ian,Woody,John Martyn,Tom Waites,Fagen and Becker.......all fantastic people that have changed the world of music through their vision of truth in their lyric.

For Christ Sake please don't come here and say something as stupid as""" Theres no duobt ''Fairytale of New York '' , is a great xmas song when your pissed and , ok , it's popular with mose people but McGowan hasn't a note in his head , he's up there with Ronnie Drew and Luke Kelly .
As a songwriter ?? one half decent song hardly makes you a ledgend .
Im sorry but i cant ever identify him as an irish hero , fiddles , accordians and a bowran ?? sorry but no thanks """"

Im sorry but you are a goat my friend......

And don't get me started on what your saying about Luke kelly!!

RF

[RadioFriend]

BTW

Its great to hear DD metion "Haunted"..I had that on CD once and lost it .....

Its a fantastic song...

Nice one DD.

RF

[Iano]

Im a goat ?? why?
because i dont share the same musical taste as you ??
I was giving my opinion thats all , i thought thats what the board is for .

Ianooooo

[RadioFriend]

Ok I'm sorry...

It was unfair of me to say that. But I would say to you "not to subscribe to a thread if you’re weak on the subject"
The Subject is Shane McGowan.
To be honest I'm not a massive fan but I have listened to all his work through the years and as a result I respect what he has done for music in this country.
Again I say he is a musical genius...

If you think that all this man has done is "Fairytale" then you have little or nothing to add to this thread?

I don't mean any disrespect to you Ian.


RF

[RadioFriend]

I just remembered that I interviewed Shane once; I think it was back in 1997/1998.
In a big room of people there was I and my Marantz just about to plunge into some interesting chat with
The quintessential hedonist.
I had learned a lot a about this man from an interview that Tonya Henderson did with him that year for the Sunday World …So I felt well “Prepped”
The story began in Co. Tipperary on Christmas Day thirty-nine years ago when Shane McGowan entered the world. The McGowan family moved to England when their son was six. At school his talent for English was remarkable, winning him a scholarship at the Catholic Westminster Public School. Less than a year later, aged fourteen, he was expelled for possession of drugs. Much of the next four years were spent walking the streets of London's West End, hanging out with junkies and disciples of the city's underworld.
“Are you still haunted by those years Shane or is it fair to say that much of your music would not have been born without those experiences?

With that Shane seemed a little uncomfortable and apologised, as he had just urinated in his pants.
He was with his sister who you can imagine was very embarrassed by the whole ordeal and got very upset.

They left the interview and later that week his sister called to say how put out she was about the whole thing….

I ended up bringing her into Studio a week later to promote her own CD called “Chariot”

I’m not sure if Siobhan McGowan has released anything since that?

RF

[Iano]

Its no problem , you didn't insult me , but i still think he's a talentless p*ss head .
Phil Lynott , now theres a real irish hero .

[DeargDoom]

The big difference between Phil and Shane is that Phils alcohol and drug dependency was not known to the public.

Ian is certainly right to describe McGowan as a pisshead. But as untalented? Mmmm, dunno.

Ironic that both Joe Strummer and Kirsty McColl who both worked extensively with the Pogues have passed away while Shane is alive.

Will Shane ever return to form? Hard to say it but I think he pushed the self destruct button many years ago.