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View Full Version : 1 of the reasons clubs are where they are.


buzzbomb
29th August 2010, 02:46
For the past 15 months we've listened to nightclub owners and managers bitch and moan about how their venues are struggling , how profit margins are down , how numbers are not there anymore and not hitting the same targets they used to. I agree the good times are over but unless clubs are prepared to fight their corner and work harder then were all f***ed but its not just down to the recession.

A typical example of why clubs should'nt just blame the current finincial climate came tonight .

8 lovely girls, well dressed , well mannered, well spoken and all within the age required were turned away from 6 venues in Dublin tonight by doormen who havn't got the required intelligence or kop on to spot a poitential regular new customer because of their bad manners and usless judgement .
Club owners are very quick to blame a dj for falling numbers , instead of looking at other reasons as to why nobody wants to visit their club or bar .
For years ive seen bad doormen ruin clubs by not letting decent people past their doors because they dont want to & are generally just thugs . Its basically down to ignorance but most importantly of all, employing somebody who is not qualified to do that job, nothing more , it's like asking a plumber to do a service on a car.

Irish nightclubs for years have rode their luck , during the good times they became dictators on our social scene, bullys, chancers, glorfied bankers who had a licence to print money and employed the wrong people , especially doormen , one of the reasons clubs became empty.

After the horror stories i heard tonight I cant see our industry gettin better or improving because unless a club operator /owner has the kop on to stand on a door every night and watch what is happening then he or she has no chance of running a successful club/bar.

The bottom line here is, Doormen are a HUGE part of the reason our industry is where it is , and unless owners address this very soon , then i cant see clubs surviving .

Another problem our industry is facing is the dreaded 19 or 21 year old new club promoter . You know , the answer to every clubs prayers , the new hot shot wannabee tosser who went to Ibiza this year then all of a sudden becomes an expert and then gets a job in a club in Ireland .
He's the guy who wants to turn a mainstream/commercial club into the new El Divino or Pacha but forgets he's in Ireland . I mean god f***ing help us when he arrives at our venue and wants funky house and cool uplifting beats with a hint of progressive house and old skool chill in a club that depends on chart music, mainstream dance , r&b and 25 miniutes of Party music.

If the reciever moves into a club they generally are walking into a business they dont know a lot about so where do they get their advice from ? YES Accountants ' Accountants are in charge and are making the finincial decisions but they are taking their advice from the wrong source, usually a spotty faced college graduate who claims to have done a bit of ' Event management ' . My advice to these people is , talk to the dj's that have the experience and know-how , the heart of the industry , the people who own the dancefloor and have the experience to understand a crowd and the music policy required instead of listening to some stupid jumped up barman or doorman who have their own required taste in music .

As a dj I hope i can call this on every dj's behalf . Were not experts , nobody is, were not in a position to come up with the magical answer , but what i will say is, we know a lot more about the in's and out's of a music policy in certain venues , we can see the mistakes a mile off and have more qualifications than anybody to improve a club or bar , its called experience , not expertise .

My final note on this , if clubs wants to survive then its very important to choose your doormen carefully & if your a club or bar owner , you need to put the time in and YOU need to choose your clientel or get a qualified person to do that , not your doorman , he's there to make sure your customers are safe and if thers a problem , he 's there to sort it out , nothing more and without any fuss . Listen to your dj a lot more , ask his advice and trust his ability .

jolishan
29th August 2010, 03:16
Without a doubt one of the most intelligent well thought out posts on a delicate problem I have ever had the pleasure of reading here. I agree with every single word one hundred and fifty per cent and it should be copied and handed to every club, bar and hotel owner/manager in the country. Well said that man.
JIm

Mike O' Brien
29th August 2010, 08:27
great post buzz.

discokid
29th August 2010, 14:43
great post buzz.

Well said buzz! often when a club is doing badly the dj is always wrong thats what the managment say anyway. Great post and spoken from a dj who has being on the road a while like myself.

jackman
29th August 2010, 16:03
Great post! In fact brilliant post and if I can digress a little, a club is much like a radio station. IF the radio station isnt performing, it must be the DJs fault!! NOT!

Graham
29th August 2010, 16:37
have to agree , there are two clubs i will simply never go to again given how ignorant and rude their door staff are

HammerJ
30th August 2010, 10:02
Cheers Buzz.

buzzbomb
31st August 2010, 01:18
Thankfully there are still a select few good club managers out there & i'm very lucky to be involved with venues that are willing to let a dj choose the music and play to the crowd & trust their ability to keep a floor busy .
Too many club owners and so called managers think they know what a crowd wants and have that now famous fear factor of not trusting an experienced dj to do his job . Come on , we've all experienced the completely dumb ignorant inexperienced floor walker who stands beside the dj box letting us know who's the boss . Usually a bully who thinks he or she knows it all but cant decide if they want to be the dj or the boss . How many of us here have walked into a gig on either a reputation or recommendation from a reliable source only to be met with the 'Oh we dont go too mad with the music here , they like a bit of [Whatever] but dont play it ok. Now it dosent matter if the crowd wants it , we dont want you to play it . GOD F***ING HELP US . If you dont want a certian style of music then fine , but dont target a clientel who want to hear music you are not prepared to play , certainly after asking them to play 12 or 10 euro into your venue.

Clubs & bars should set an agenda & long term plan , a music strategy that works at their venue and is targeted at a specific crowd . Its called planning and marketing and it generally works if the market is there and the research has been done but the most important ingredient of all is not just getting the music right but employing doormen who wont give a bad impression on a first visit .

Lets face it , were all fighting for survival,4 years ago we all had a midweek gig but now were all trying to hold onto whatever gigs we have , but its difficult to stand our ground when we come up against bad doormen, club music policy that dosent work, cheaoer dj's, poor marketing and the wrong people given a position of power.

Leave it with you.

leggo
31st August 2010, 04:44
Well-thought out post.

I have a lot to say on this subject as I've been on both sides of the coin. I think it's a little slanted and biased towards the DJ and VERY unfair on doormen. But I'll post my thoughts in full when I get the chance.

On the run
31st August 2010, 18:56
What sickens my stomach is getting refused by someone who can barely speak English. There's some doormen out there with major ego problems. I went to a place on the Green awhile ago to see a DJ. id heard of the gig on FM104 as i went to the door with my friend both dressed to go out the doorman says ''what can i do for yas lads?'' i said I'm here for the gig and his response was guest list only, so why was in advertised on the radio if it was guest list only? he had a major attitude problem and was pig ignorant. w**ker

leggo
31st August 2010, 20:07
Right.

As I said, my day-job is in security and my night-job is DJ-ing. I've also a wealth of experience in promoting (both with clubs and elsewhere) and, to toot my own horn somewhat, have probably done more in promoting than most in the country. So this is a topic quite close to my heart which I can look at from an unbiased perspective.

And, for a start, the fact is that being a doorman, promoter and a DJ are three VERY different things. We're an awful nation for thinking we can do someone else's job. But, even though they all operate under the same roof, all 3 have to be highly-qualified to succeed in what they're doing.

A person who has DJ'd, and just been a DJ, all of his/her life would more than likely NOT make a good promoter. A DJ's job is to pack the dancefloor and get the punters buzzing so they stay until closing, buy as much booze as possible and come back the next night/week/whatever. That's it. Once the promoter has gotten them into the club and the punter has gotten past the door staff...only THEN does the DJ become relevant. So a DJ, by trade, is NOT qualified to promote. Given that they work in the industry, they're obviously qualified to put forward ideas about promoting...but so is the barman, cleaner and doorman if they see fit.

The fact is, I see waaaaaaaaaayy too many DJ's out there who are TERRIBLE promoters. Posting on Facebook "Come to this club cus I'm there and I'm deadly!!!" isn't going to attract anyone, sorry. A good promoter is someone who has the oversight to understand his market, knows what buttons to push, is willing to put the necessary (and heart-breaking amounts of) leg work in and then has the smarts to build on any momentum that they get. That has absolutely zero to do with mixing, music selection, or anything along those lines. It's a separate job altogether.

Having a say over music policy? Yes, I'll give you that...to a degree. Being a nightclub manager doesn't mean you know a thing about DJ-ing. So a manager can only give their appraisal of a DJ at the end of the night or over a long period of time based on the figures that they are drawing (let's face facts: if you pull 200 into a club that holds 2,000 on a Saturday night...it's not the doorman's fault).

At the same time, though, it's the nightclub owner's money to spend (on behalf of the owner) - not the DJ's - so if he wants to drive his club into the ground by going with a music policy that doesn't work and you don't want to/can't accomodate...so be it. Don't like it? Get out of DJ-ing. Harsh but fair.

I've done door work. So I know how tough and stressful a job it is. You have to play the big bad wolf. You have the final say over who gets into the club. Get it wrong and the club could be shut down leaving you and your colleagues out of a job. So, from that standpoint, I think you're being very unfair on doormen there.

Are their arsehole doormen out there? YES! In their droves. But their are also arsehole DJ's out there in their droves (I joke to people I know that if there's two kinds of people I hate in this world it's security guards and DJ's...I just happen to be both). There are also arseholes in EVERY industry. It's because the doorman has to play big bad wolf that he gets such a bad reputation. In the same sense, the DJ is the first blamed by people who have a bad night in a club: the REAL issue is that the person who's complaining is some pervy fella who couldn't pull a young one, but NOOOO the DJ was just shit and THAT'S what the problem was.

I also wouldn't criticise non-national doormen. A good security team is one that has a variety of different people: a person who can talk themselves and others out of trouble, a Terminator-looking fella who does nothing but look mean at the door and scares people into not causing trouble, a trained killer who will go Rambo if shit hits the fan, and so on. Non-nationals can and, in the case of a lot of people that I know personally, do tick these boxes very well. If there's one occupation in the country where I absolutely wouldn't complain about 'd'foreigners taking our jawbs', it's when it comes to doormen. They're an asset.

At the end of the day, it's NOT the DJ's fault. Nor is it the promoter's, bouncer's or even the nightclub manager's fault. What we need to realise is that times have massively changed. And we ALL need to move with that change in order to succeed instead of trying to re-live a past that simply ain't coming back. The DJ needs to play every gig like it's his last, the bouncer needs to get the chip off his shoulder, the promoter needs to realise that more bad houses could lead to an entire club shutting down and the manager needs to ensure he has the RIGHT people who will do all of the above in every position, or change up. End of.

That said, I really enjoyed your post buzzbomb and it's a great topic. Some of the points made in the above post weren't directed at you, some were at others and some I just wanted to rant about. Even though I disagree with much of what you said, I commend and respect you for at least having the foresight to think along these lines anyway. The first requirement of making a change is realising that a change needs to be made.