The "DJ - Laptop/Laptop Software/Digital DJ'ing" thread

[Jasonsh]

Hi,

I have been a Mobile DJ for the past 12 years. I am finally tired of lugging around boxes of CD's so I have been thinking of changing to some sort of MP3 DJ software.

Does anyone on this forum gig with any sort of DJ software and how does it perform, ie. has it ever crashed in the middle of a gig? (my ultimate fear!!)

Cheers
Jason

[Turiel]

http://www.alcatech.com

I havent gigged with it but I really love the program. Basically same interface as denon's, and you can find songs really quickly. You'd also need the hardware part of it which is the same as a standard cd player RC unit.

I'm thinking about it, but to be honest there's not a LOT of gain. It'd be cool and all, but I dunno if I could justify the expense. I carry around ~10,000 songs between my 3 caselogics. The cases arent THAT big at all, the only time you lug stuff around is if you use those big steel flight cases.

[Pulse 95-99]

I have been trying out pcdj, which is like the numark system. Although this is instant start. Ive been trying out at the start of the night for warm up but not at the main part of the night. There is loads of different programs, i would give 18 months before you see some company that has truly perfected it.

[KJ]

My mate loves PC DJ - he actually wrote some of his own software to play with when using it. Check his site HERE (http://www.pcdjuser.com) - its hasnt been updated in awhile but worth a look

2 colleagues have Atomix on their laptops and have been MP3 DJing for nearly a year now, like Pulse said tho - none of the software is perfect, think I'll wait awhile myself but its definitely the way every venue will be in a few years - i.e. you plug in your laptop and away ye go


The advantage PCDJ has over Atomix is you can buy Denon "shells" to attach to the laptop, hence still making you actually do some work ;) Certain laptop DJ's in the city just look too damn lazy with the software, a club manager doesnt want his DJ sitting on a stool playing with a laptop IMHO


KJ

;)

[Peadar]

In terms of stability, a Linux based PC running xmms MP3 software will never crash. That said, nobody has written a DJ graphical console for it so it's probably best in your HiFi stack at home for the moment.

[Turiel]

I beg to disagree, linux may not crash, but xmms certainly does!

[The squire]

I agree about lugging the flight cases around!! my back Is in bits, It cry's itself to sleep every night!! But in my opinion it just wouldnt be the same arriving at a gig with just a laptop. I like lugging around boxes of cds & 12"s, I like gigging with them. I wouldnt feel like i was djing if i was using a laptop. I would definitly incorporate one into the setup, But i would still need my backbreaking cases!

P.S does anyone belive that cd's have a 48-hour self destruct feature? Whenever i buy one its only a matter of hours before i drop it and the hindges or the thingy in the centre of the cd breaks!! every time!

ITS MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE!!

[Alan D]

What's the average price of this software?

[KJ]

about 3-400E for PCDJ and Atomix, not sure about the others

[KJ]

about 3-400E for PCDJ and Atomix, not sure about the others


KJ

[Turiel]

The alcatech one is 350 pounds sterling for the software and 600 pounds for the hardware unit.

[Mr-X]

Check out the new Pioneer DMP-555 multimedia player. www.pioneerprodj.com

[fox three]

What is the natural progression of mainstream DJs? When I started in the business I had my box of 7” and if I was lucky had a few 12” singles and well as my albums. My first set of “decks” were a set of Citronic mono populars. I remember at the time starting work with a DJ that used one Compact Disc player for playing special mixes of music he got. Much to the annoyance of club managers as it wasn’t the real thing. In fact I have a tape of him play in Jester’s (if you remember that one, you’ll be doing well) where he actually intro the song by saying it was on CD.

Forward a few years and all mainstream DJs are playing on CD. Buying loads of CD singles to beat the band, CDRs? What are they? Did Denon make the market explode with the DN2000F? It seems like everyone had one of those at some stage or another. You looked down on venues that didn’t have a denon. So where did this natural progression start from. The reason why I start this debate is what is next? What has become the norm? Is it acceptable not to buy and single CD and download everything of the net, burn it on to a data CD and go and do your gig? Has there been a negative reaction to the whole CDR experience? Personally I think its great, burn 20 tracks on to a CDR, instead of carrying all the singles around with you. I know a couple of DJs that put their entire playing collection in a camera bag!! Now that’s compact!

So, in recent times I have been experimenting with using my laptop. I got a copy of PCDJ, and started copying most of my music to mp3. Is this the natural progression? I think it is. I recently spent time in the US, and most of the mainstream DJs were playing on the laptop. I have also noticed this in bars etc in the South East of the country here a lot. As working DJs put your thoughts here. Will using the laptop be the future of DJing, or is there another format out there that hasn’t been touched on yet?

[max power]

i'm using a laptop for certain gigs, its just the same as cd players if all you want to do is paly music, no mixing etc, the venue i use it in most is all oldies and is hard to get gear into, its a real plus that way, very compacy and with a large hard drive your liabary is very large, there is a lot of software out there and i've 5 or 6 programs, but the easiest to use i feel is atomixmp3, easy to use and works well, i use a mixer to for a mic and am putting a touch screen system together at the mo to make life a little easier !!!

[Turiel]

Some of you may recall that I tried out laptop DJing a couple of months back.

The program I used was Alcatel BPM Studio, which is much more powerful than PCDJ, although a lot more expensive. The interface is very polished and easy to use, and there are key binding for everything.

One of the big problems I had when just using the laptop was tune selection. Even though my music was split into different directories by genre, it was still a lot harder to just 'flip' through the tunes as you'd do with your normal CD case. Even though I know my music collection very well, it still was hard to pick the next song purely by mentally going through all the songs in my mind. It's fine for the "standard" sets where you know exactly what you are going to play (ie the top chart tunes) but when you try to do something different it gets more complicated.

It was kinda hard remember the key combinations, and I'd often end up putting the pitch forward instead of backward or playing the wrong track.

Besides for the drawback of remember the keys though, mixing is actually quite straightforward, and it has a very accurate BPM counter too, which helps.

But anyway, at the end of the day, I'm going to stick with CDs, at least for the time being. I need a better system of searching through all my songs before I'll switch permanently. I'd consider buying the seperate controller (which works like a normal CD player controller) which would eliminate the nuisance of using the keys, and make it all a bit easier.

[Pistol]

I recently kitted out my laptop with PCDJ, a DAC 2 controller (external controller), AG gigaport (external soundcard with up to 4 channels, USB powered). I also ripped nearly all my singals and albums onto it.
For some reason i have started playing more music of cd again. If there was a set of technics tin the club I dj in I would bring vinyl.

Am i just a very confused Dj, I don't know. To me its all about what feels more like Djing...

[KJ]

There's only one club jock in the city who Ive seen to manage to pull off laptop DJing without looking like a lazy fecker and still keep the floor - it *is* the next step, no doubt about it , but I think we should all wait for these new Denon's next year which will have the ability to read Data CDs. I can see all jocks going to gigs with folders as opposed to Case Logics about 2 years from now when these new babies come out (and Pioneer no doubt follow)

KJ

[KJ]

Note: threads merged due to common theme

Just checked and it looks as tho' Pioneer have already got there first regarding players that will read both audio and data MP3's

Click HERE (http://www.pioneerprodj.com/) go to "Products", click on the DMP-555 and prepare to be amazed

KJ

[max power]

i use atomix at least once a week to gig with and it works perfectly, not one glitch, it cost me 50 euro and was well worht it, i wouldn't pay 350 for a software package, the whloe operating system on a laptop doesn't even cost thst much. keep it simple, all you really need is two decks and pitch and volume and gain control and a simple liabary system, i think other stuff makes it complicated and at the end of the day all you want to do is play music and not build an atomic bomb.

[Turiel]

You could make the same argument for CD players Max... but why would you settle for a crappy pair of numarks when you can have the above mentioned DMP-555 :)

I used BPMStudio (which incidently costs 1000 for the software and another 1000 for the hardware. Not that I paid), and it was just so nice to use the interface and have all the extra features (sampler, loop, auto-bpmmatch, etc).

[max power]

there is a big difference between software and hardware eg, laser for a denon 2000 45 euro laser for pioneer 500 200, the components make up a lot of the price.

i think its more important that it works well rather than the coding and the way it looks.

atomix gets my vote

[KJ]

Atomix is the package of choice for the most of the laptop jocks I know - given the fact that PCDJ lets you have a Denon shell which you can add I dunno why its not more popular

KJ

[Audioman]

Guys whats the best (in your opinion) Automation package for mobile dj's. 2 channels at least and a mic channel. Any info and websites would be great

thanks

[walshie]

A lot of it depends on how much you are willing to spend, on both software and hardware.

I'v been wooed onto Traktor. It's the best one if your using MAC but it has MS versions and it's not all that dear (240 VAt inclusive at least on MAC). It's capable of proper mixing, lots of solid features, pitch fade, no gaps between tracks unlike some dodgy programmes, a bypass laptop mixer possible and external feed into your computer unit.

[Liam Tutty]

I have been thinking bout going down the Laptop road for gigging. For gigs where I'd be beat mixing I would still have to have my decks, Id feel naked without them. But for simple 21st's and the like would Raduga be ok? Just run the music from the Laptop and use the Mic In for my mic? I already have Raduga so it seems like a reasonable idea.

[max power]

this topic has already been covered a few times but i use atomix, its good , liabary is easy to use,m effects are handy, but for a mic i use a mixer, i can use the eq from the mixer and set the mic the way i like, download some demos and try them out before you decide.

[Macers]

Originally posted by Phil T
I have been thinking bout going down the Laptop road for gigging. For gigs where I'd be beat mixing I would still have to have my decks, Id feel naked without them. But for simple 21st's and the like would Raduga be ok? Just run the music from the Laptop and use the Mic In for my mic? I already have Raduga so it seems like a reasonable idea.

Exactly like what I do with no problems - plus it makes sense....

[KJ]

I think Ive already said it in this thread but if you're Laptop Jocking you have to be VERY careful you're not standing there doing nothing and giving a manager an excuse to get someone else. One Laptop Jock I witnessed recently was sitting on his arse, chatting away to a mate, letting the songs go to the very end and then hitting the space bar for the next tune - thats *not* what DJ'ing is about as far as Im concerned


KJ

;)

[Macers]

No I still bring my mixer and decks (if a mobile gig) and sometimes just bring the laptop to the club with my cds saves carrying alot of cds

[DaForce]

Has any one made the move for gigging?

Just bought a laptop and looking at buying PC DJ FX software and the DAC 2 controller

www.pcdj.com


Any one used this set up yet?

Advice?


I have a Pioneer CDJ kit at the moment and debating to upgrade to a pair of the new CDJ 1000 which have a load of nice features but a really hefty price tag!


What do you think?

[Darren B]

Ato mix came free in boxes of shreddies earlier this year. Full version !!!!! I kid you not !!!

Nice piece of software but too easy to use. It custs all the work out of djing. I will sick to playing vinyl thanks very much

[LisaLavish]

Claude Young used final scratch in the temple bar music center last week as is now based in Japan and wouldnt risk losing his records...Looks funny him banging out techno with this laptop infront of him...PVD also used it at planet love

[Boston Barney]

1 and a half years using ATOMIX mp3, and find it the most effective and most user friendly software out there!!

Easy to find your songs with a full search function built in! On top of that you have a nice folder section at the side that you show or hide making it easy to find your songs! You can customise your keyboard to have short cuts for play, stop, pitch and loop etc etc!

Has only let me down once in all that time and that was due to my own stupid fault of not plugging the thing in one night and the battery ran down!!!!!:dunce:

Have had guys come up to me and say your not a real DJ, and the computer is doing the work, i just ask them to watch for a few minutes and they soon change there tune, as kelly said a few posts back, you still have to work and show that your not just sitting on your arse letting one song run into another!!!

Thanking you lorraine!

Barney

Do you like those apples misses, are they green enough for ya???

[DarrenByrne]

I know this has been brought up before and maybe it should be in technical..but just wondering in the experience of members on this board, what's the best dj software around at the moment and how practical is it bringing a laptop to your gig...

[WayneScales]

Using "Mixmeister", my favourite program by a mile,excellent piece of software,highly recommended!

[dj-jono]

what version of mixmeister are you using wayne

[patb]

i use for some pre-recorded mixes Mix Meister Pro 5, and for live pc mixes DSS DJ.

MixMeister (www.mixmeister.com)
DssDj (www.dssdj.com)

[walshie]

Traktor is a good one, it's about the only one that runs on Apple.

[starsound]

It depends what type of DJ'ing you are into. If you are a Club Jock and beat-mix all your tracks, I believe Traktor is one of the best. But if you are like me and are a Mobile/Party Jock, I cannot recommend OTSDJ enough, it is superb!!

Have a look at www.otsdj.com

Not cheap but worth every penny.

A laptop is the way to go. All your music stored on the hard drive and you can instantly find all tracks. Also, no CD's for anyone to look through (or steal).

Best Regards
Jason

[mixmonkey107]

been using both pcdj red and traktor for a long time...both excellent pieces of kit and the best thing about it all.....one laptop,one bag 20,000 mp3's and no hassle!!!11

[starsound]

Yep, sorry, forgot to mention PCDJ as well. Excellent program and very stable, but make sure it is PCDJ Red (also known as PCDJ Professional) because some of the other variations (ie, PDCJ FX) have had many problems.

Best Regards
Jason

[phil fagan]

BPM is not bad.....if you can get your hands on it.....

[Rabbit Ears]

Originally posted by starsound
It depends what type of DJ'ing you are into. If you are a Club Jock and beat-mix all your tracks, I believe Traktor is one of the best. But if you are like me and are a Mobile/Party Jock, I cannot recommend OTSDJ enough, it is superb!!

Gotta agree with you on OTSDJ starsound. I too only gig at parties/weddings/corporate gigs and therefore do not require beat matching. OTSDJ is the best...... and I have tried many. Most crossfade when going into the next track and you lose the begining of the song. OTSDJ gives a lovely smooth mix just like listening to overnight radio (many pirates use it) due to the processing it uses. This is a pain to set up as it takes ages to process every track but once you catch up it's ok. You can also set markers to cut tracks enabling you to make nice mixes and retrieve the full song later.

I've been using it with an external hard-drive and sound card for a year and a half now and its brill........ 20,000 songs and i can find any in 5 seconds! Beat that with CD!

[ruffneck]

Ots for me too great piece of software:D

[Peadar]

Just curious - has anyone used FinalScratch 1.5 or 2? I'd never heard of it till a friend mentioned it yesterday - looks like a snazzy piece of kit. Anyone have any experience of it, 'cos it does look a bit pricey!

[thetodger]

I Have 47000 Mp3's on a disk too, i Burned them for a mate of mine though and it tookl 30 DVD-r's to do it, it took all day! your best off buying an external drive and doing that way!

[Colum McGrath]

Can anyone recommend good Dj software. Maybe something that is easy to use coz I'm technically challenged. Ta

[KJ]

*threads merged due to common theme*


Most jocks seem to be using OTS lately

[Ginger]

Ots seems to be the most user friendly for those who want to manually mix and keep the challenge in Jocking . You must also use the external soundcard or split lead so you can use the cue facility and mix. I did see a clown using a laptop on one channel of the mixer and pretending he was mixing. He even put his headphones on, although all he could hear wa the tune that was playing. He may as well have a pint glass up to his ear. This idea takes the challenge out of the job.

Ots is like having two turntables. Manual cueing, no loops or gadgets. Just hard work.....

Ots are releasing a new version with cue points at the end of the summer.

[WayneScales]

Another good software is "MixMiester", very impressive indeedy! :cheers:

[KJ]

I think most DJs using Pioneers who have been mixing years are fond of the loop function if its used creatively - myself included. Was having a quick text chat with a very respected jock tonight who's gone with OTS a laptop setup and, as he says, hopefully it'll offer the same functions as the Pioneers a year or two from now ........ lets hope so. If I had the Master Tempo and Loop functions of the Pioneers with OTS Id buy a laptop tomorrow ;)

I agree with Ginger in keeping the challenge of jocking intact, I dont think I could just use the spacebar and "auto-mix" options all night that some software offers.

Thats not DJing IMHO

[Fr. Dougal]

MP3 players, iPods, laptops and projections of images onto giant screens are all becoming part of the armoury for the modern DJ.

Is the rapid growth in laptop mixing set to spell the end for the traditional turntable user?

An iPod mixer, made by DJ equipment manufacturer Newmark, will shortly be the latest item released that allows DJs to manipulate digitally-stored music.

For some, the revolution is becoming so swift it is even changing what the letters "DJ" - traditionally short for "disc jockey" - stand for.

"Digital jockey is a DJ," Matt Black of respected DJ duo Coldcut told BBC World Service's The Music Biz programme.

"Just forget discs, go beyond discs. A digital jockey manipulates media of different forms, mixes them and produces an entertainment out of that."

Small players

At the start of the 1990s, being a DJ was very clear-cut - sitting in a booth, with two decks, a large collection of vinyl, a few samples and a baseball cap.

But the 21st Century DJ has become part of the digital revolution as much as anything else.

Being able to store and mix vast collections of music on small players and computers has also allowed DJing to become much more participatory, with a number of venues allowing clubbers to DJ themselves from their MP3 player.


People like to see that someone's doing something really live, and to hear mistakes
DJ Mylo
"We give people 15 minutes to play their favourite tunes, or their own music or whatever they want, and we have panel of judges who hold up score cards at the end of the set," said Lisa Rocket, who runs one of these nights at a bar in London.

"If they particularly like a song during the set, they will hold up a 'tune' card - that goes on the scoreboard. At the end of the night, there's a prize."

She said that different people play songs from different sources - some have laptops, some play their own music and mix it with live tracks.

"It's great when we get a crowd in because if the crowd disagree with the judges we get a lot of boos - it's fun, it's interactive," she added.

"There is a future for iPod clubbing. I think the future of DJing is in the laptop.

"There are a lot of mainstream vinyl DJs moving towards that... I can see a lot of mainstream DJs doing very complex things with samples and loops that they simply can't do with vinyl."

'Can't hear difference'

Coldcut's Matt Black said he agreed. "I don't have much truck with whinging old vinyl DJs to be honest," he stated.

"It's like, if you enjoy vinyl, that's great. I love vinyl. But I haven't used it for two or three years because I discovered that, when (CD mixer) CDJ 1000s came out, I can't hear any difference to vinyl. It's good enough for me."

He said that he found "new experimentation" very exciting, and the duo are "totally dedicated to that".

Coldcut first scored chart success in the late 1980s
"Technologies allow more real-time manipulation, and a lot more music," he added.

"One of the things I like about DJing with CDs is that, with a fat wallet of CDs I've compiled, I can play for days - whereas a fat box of vinyl was great to sit on but not much fun to lug around."

However, Scottish DJ Mylo - who had a huge international hit with In My Arms earlier this year - stressed that no matter what changes in technology, the essence would always be on the live mix.

"The format - whether it's on vinyl or CD or whatever - doesn't really matter," he said.

"The thing about DJing is queuing up one record after another and mixing them together in certain ways.

"What I think people like is to see that someone's doing something really live, and to hear mistakes.

"So if someone does a perfectly beatmatched, perfectly programmed DJ set on their laptop, the suspicion will always be that they spent hours pre-preparing it at home and they just came to the club and pressed play - which is against the whole ethos of doing something live.

"I think people will rapidly tire of that in one way or another."

You can read the rest of the article at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4637575.stm

[clubhappy]

Interesting arguement and one that will split peoples views down the middle.

I have always had the view that no matter what form you use ,be it vinyl , cd, lap top or other , the most important aspect is what comes through the speakers and the clubbers are having fun .
How many punters actually go to the trouble of scrutinising a dj to see if he's mixing live or not ?? None .

Seb Fontaine surprised everybody earlier this year by turning up at an Irish venue with a case full of cd's and a lap top , and still put on a superb night.

Personally i'd find it difficult to change from cd , although i said that about vinyl.

[KJ]

Have merged this with the "Laptop" thread as they're pretty close in topic.

[Jason Dee]

Bedrock boss John Digweed chatted to Skrufff this week about his upcoming label compilation Layered Sounds 2 and revealed that he’s lost faith in the future of vinyl .......

We can safely say that as far as the era of vinyl is concerned it’s not a question of ‘if’ but ‘when’,” said John, “Which is a shame.”

The superstar DJ’s conclusion is particularly significant since he’s long been acknowledged as one of vinyl’s most enthusiastic supporters (DJ Mag dubbed him ‘still a vinyl lover at heart’ in their 2004 Top 100 poll) and he predicted the change is coming sooner rather than later.

“So many DJs are nowadays using only CDs that you go to clubs and you’re lucky if you can find a turntable working properly,” he revealed. “Because it’s been so long since they’ve been used in some of these places that you turn up playing records and they skip and start jumping.”

“I was playing with Danny Howells recently and he was telling me he was doing some festival recently and he was the first DJ to use vinyl for the whole event and no-one had set the turntables up properly before he started. So it took him a while to sort all the decks out properly. It’s a shame but that’s how the technology has gone,” he added.

The key factor driving the change is the internet, John suggested, with digital downloads making vinyl increasingly obsolete.

“You’ve got to accept the fact that kids aged between 12 and 14 probably don’t even know what a record looks like, or CDs either. For them, choosing vinyl over CDs doesn’t make sense,” he said.

“When I travel I meet so many different DJs in places like Buenos Aires, and for them to buy a Bedrock 12” vinyl, by the time you’ve added up the import costs, the packaging, the shipping etc, they could be paying over $15 for one 12” record. Or, they could go onto Bedrock.org.uk and buy the same track for a pound. So if you’re an up and coming DJ who hasn’t got a lot of gigs and not a lot of disposable cash are you going to spunk all your money on three of four records as opposed to 20 or 30 downloads?

From that economic aspect, you can’t blame kids for only wanting downloads now, they can also get them instantly. Sure you can order records online, but they take two or three days whereas you can hear a track online, download it instantly and be playing it out that night,” he pointed out

[Avid Listener]

Just wondering has anyone got or used the hercules controller for Ots Dj and if so

1. Is it any good
2. Where did u get it and where's the best place to get it.

Seen lots of different prices for it on the net... different versions of the controller too.

Thinking of getting it so any info would be great

[Leyland]

Man,

I'd love some feedback on it as well.... I have found a lot of good ones for it, but a few showcasing flaws... I'm getting onto Big Bear Audio tomorrow so I'll let you know all.... :)

[Avid Listener]

Cheers Leyland,

Yeah let me know how u get on

[Ginger]

I use Ots all the time giging and i got a loan of the hercules controller about six months ago from a friend who had bought in a sale in the U.S. . It was cheap , light , very breakable , hard to configure, the play button has a half second delay (similar to the delay you would get using the F5 OR F1 key on the laptop ,instead of the mouse . All in all it was the biggest piece of sh*te i have used .

Hope that helped ...

[Avid Listener]

That does not sound good...but the half second delay when you use the "F" keys? That can't be right. I have no delay on my system... actually prefer to use the F keys than the mouse..

Does anyone else have a delay when using the F keys rather than the mouse?

[Bouncer_irl]

The new Dac3 will control all midi software there is no delay on it

[Avid Listener]

Yeah but look at the price of the Dac over 500euro without softare... How can u justify that?

[Ginger]

Sorry the delay i mentioned was on the touch pad on the laptop and not the F keys as i first stated . It was late and i was tired :) . I forgot my mouse one night and it was really hard using the touch pad buttons . I will stand by everything i said about the hercules controller .
Anyone heard anything about the new version of OTS that was promised 2 years ago . The website has not been updated in years . There is no update with cue points available , is there? Thats the one thing it really lacks .

[JDxtra]

Anyone heard anything about the new version of OTS that was promised 2 years ago . The website has not been updated in years . There is no update with cue points available , is there? Thats the one thing it really lacks .

I first started using this software in late 1999 :eek: . Back then they were also promising the earth regarding features. Glad I didn't hold my breath!

[Liamo]

I tried it out a while back; while it's good, it's got 2 flaws:

1) It doesn't read all MP3 tags correctly
2) It leaves LOADS of additional files lying around

I'd suggest trying out Traktor DJ....got notified about an update yesterday, and from the looks of it, it's got the lot!

[Avid Listener]

Never had a problem with it reading the mp3 tags... might be a typo error on when the file is first saved...could see a prob that way...

extra files are tiny and that's why it's so good at mixing or fading from one song to another...

wouldn't really call that a problem Liamo

[BlueLight]

I have been using OTS demo and was wondering compared to Traktor DJ which one people found better ????

:innocent:

[patb]

i dont know why evryone raves on about ots, iv tested it out & thought it was rubbish, i use tracktor dj studio. much better in my opinion for mobile dj'n

[Gav Hayes]

I tried it out a while back; while it's good, it's got 2 flaws:

2) It leaves LOADS of additional files lying around


But Liam the .OMX files you are talking about are to quick load the files, rather than having to rescan them! I'm all for no clutter myself, but sometimes they are a necessary evil.

[Avid Listener]

In responce to Patb

Ok The reason I love ots is because after buying the program and spending literally 2 months categorizing all my music I know have the perfect playout system... I can playlist for categorized songs...or Rated songs without clicking and dragging.... Makes warm up so much easier and better instead of some made up mix cd..Guaranteed to be different everynight.

I'm also a smoker so i know when i run out it won't stop, insred it'll fade nicely into the next one.

I must admit when i did first use it i hated it..... Like Liamo said with the extra files cluttering up the place but as said they are a necessary evil. Give it a chance use it for warm up for a few night and see then what it's like.

Mixing is the same as 2 cd players once u get used to it... Gets my thumbs up everytime. I have pcdj and still use ots insted.

Just my 2 cents.

[wavygravy]

Hi All.

First time poster on this part of the board...so go easy on me! :innocent:

It is with great delight that I read through previous posts and found that there are some Traktor users on the forum. I have been playing out on it for about 6 months now. I LOVE it. I have thousands of dance mp3's and it has made my life so much easier in finding trax, catogorising and preparing mixes. Its mainly full-on dance music that I mix. :nutter:

I have assigned different functions to the keyboard but sometimes these are just not fast enough for mixing. So my question to whoever may have the knowledge is... what kind of external controller can I hook up to my laptop. I have a Dell Inspirion, not sure what make is compatable or which make is the best. Is there anyone out there that can help little ole me..I'm a bit thick about this particular subject :dunce: (no I'm not CHANTELLE)

Cheers in advance

K8

[Greg Merriman]

I have been reading this post with interest as it has moved along. First off I am a die-hard Mac fan so PC DJ etc. were never options for me. I did some research and discovered that a lot of DJs worldwide were using Traktor so about a year ago I bought Traktor DJ Studio 2.5. I played around with it but I just couldn't get the hang of it. Like other people have said here, I found it difficult to deal with the delay when the play button was pressed, my inability to be able to assign hotkey functions to my laptop keyboard, difficulty pitch bending etc.

For me Traktor just wasn't intuitive in any way compared to the standarad DJ setup and the way we all work with CDs. It was complicated and I just could not get it to do what I wanted it to do.

Along came the upgrade to version 2.6, which I bought and still I couldn't get to grips with it.

Next I discovered Final Scratch, which contains a cut down version of Traktor along with a hardware interface which you connect to your CD players or vinyl turntables. You then use time-coded Vinyl or CD (included with the pack) which you play on standard decks and, through the hardware interface, they send the signal back to your PC and you end up playing music files stored on your laptop using your existing DJ set-up. The ideal solution I thought, but it wasn't to be. I couldn't get the discs to talk accurately enough to the music files on my laptop. At this point I should also mention that I didn't spend a huge amount of time on Final Scratch as my expectation following my previous experience with Traktor was low.

Next came the total rewrite and interface change to Traktor - now version 3.0. Again the credit card came out and I upgraded and installed. I still couldn't really get to grips.

Throughout the year I had started using Traktor for a bar gig (before the club gig) which I do - no beat mixing required. About four or five weeks ago the manager asked me when I was going to start using the laptop in the club. I told him I just didn't feel confident enough and he suggested that I try to use the laptop as an alternative to one CD player and play every second song using it. I thought why not and that's where the story really begins.

Four weeks later and it's a different world. Something just clicked and everything works beautifully - the thoughts of going back to CD fill me with dread. (By the way it took me a long time to embrace CD when it came out too!)

What has made the difference for me were a few key points. Firstly - latency.

With Traktor you need to find the right balance so that your latency setting gives you the best response time when you press the play button while also giving you a good quality of sound. Low latency gives you good sound while high latency gives you good key press response (it might be the other way around) so setting you latency somewhere in the middle will give you good response for both features. Now with my latency set correctly the key press response is at least as good as the response when pressing the play button on a CD player. Latency setting will vary depending on your set-up.

Second thing - and maybe the most difficult to get your head around - is the sync functions in Traktor. As DJs we're all used to pressing the play button as close as possible to beat one in every bar so that we get a good mix. With sync turned on in Traktor you need to press the button between beat four of the previous bar and beat one of the bar you want to start on. When you press play nothing will happen until Traktor reaches beat one and then it will start to play in perfect time.(This all happens in a fraction of a second). If you wait for beat one to press the button Traktor might not start the track until beat two throwing your whole mix out.

Third thing - and this goes hand in hand with the second item - are beat grids. I still cannot get them to work in Traktor 3.0 but I have mastered them in Traktor 2.6 and they are a dream. Once you have a beat grid properly set on the tracks you want to mix - the mix cannot go out.

At the end of the day pitch bend and pitch control become a tool from the past and you no longer need to use them.

Sorry about the long rambling nature of this post but even at that I have only scratched the surface. For anybody interested my set up is as follows:

Apple PowerBook 15"
1 Gig RAM
OSX 10.4.5
GigaportAG Audio interface - eight audio outputs via USB and gives you a volume setting the same as a CD player - most standard PC laptop outputs seem to require a significant increase in gain on the mixer.
Traktor DJ Studio 2.6
Laptop stand - essential in most venues to stop you having to lean down over your laptop.
All songs encoded on Apple's lossless aiff format which means file sizes are the same as the original CD audio file. Overkill I'm sure but it just keeps me happy and I know that quality won't suffer. For a big club sound system I wouldn't recommend encoding at anything less than 320k.

That's about it for now - ask me four weeks ago about laptop DJing and I would have told you it was a load of crap and not ready to replace CD. Now I can't imagine gigging without it and when people tell you that it's not real DJing tell them to ****off. Djing is about mixing the songs together and reading and entertaining the crowd not whteher it's a turntable, cd player or laptop and whether the songs are on vinyl, cd or mp3. They said the same about CDs and I'm sure somewhere you will find some purist who will maintain that using a Technics SL1200 is not real DJing because the platter is quartz locked and you should be using a belt drive that you have to keep in time with your finger and thumb.

[VOG]

Personally I went down the PCDj route, I got PCDJ FX and a DAC controller came to about 600euro alll in all.Personally i did not find the price an issue.

PCDJ has some hick ups but once you resolve them it runs perfectly. If you take care not to use poorly encoded songs it is very stable.

It has looping and master tempo. Using the DAC 2 I never need to touch the keyvoard, u can scroll through all you folders and songs using the jog dial. It is a pitty they went with a Denon like feel for the controller I would have much prefered a more pionner feel eg the cmx 3000 but what can you do.

I am still playing with it a bit but I used it at some of the christmas gigs that required a lot of mic work and it worked flawlessly. Am not using it at club gigs yet but I will be soon.

There is a mac version on the way in the next few months and with MAC osx built on unix I will be making the move to mac aswell

For me also the change really happened when I bought a decent external sounds card, the sound is exactly the same now as a cd player.

[disc]

i know there is a thread for this already but it is very confusing,

my question is :

i want to start using my laptop in nightclubs where i work, normal nightclub setup .

i have a new laptop normal everyday one , with one sound card ,
what do i need to start to use it properly in nightclub enviroment , i have got pcdj software , do i need another external soundcard etc

please help

[Liamo]

In order to avail of the full range of facilities that you would have from a dual CD setup, the very least you'll need is a dual output from the laptop; split either one-per-virtual player (PFL/cueing and main amp output controlled via an external mixer) or split for cue/main output by the laptop, with the main output going directly to the amp/speakers.

For most laptops, an external sound card is the only way to get a dual output.

That in itself may not be enough.....most "home DJ" software won't support the dual soundcard output, so the first thing to do is ensure that the version of PCDJ that you have will do that (last time I looked, there were 3 different versions of PCDJ)

If you pre-record your sets, this might not be an issue, but if you want/need to adapt to a crowd's tastes and still mix, you'll need it.

You'll also need to do tests to ensure that you don't encounter that blasted "ground hum" that most laptops, because of the common ground and proximity of components, suffer from when they are plugged in. This can be corrected by plugging in via an extension lead that has the earth pin removed (do at your own risk) or by buying a phono/RCA-type unit that will deflect the audible hum for you while still keeping the laptop properly grounded.

[mistermisfit]

you could always go for one of these

http://www.hercules.com/showpage.php?swcty=UK&p=127&b=0&f=0

Nice unit. it has its own sound cards built in so you dont have to use the laptop sound. comes with a copy of virtual DJ. very neat!

[disc]

cheers, my next question , will a standard sound card(external) be all right one you can get from pc world ?

[Turiel]

I've never seen a proper dual output card in any of the retail shops here, they're kind of a specialty. I can't remember offhand the website to buy them from, but I think if you go to the forums of any of the DJ software packages like PCDJ they discuss it there. Be warned that many soundcards can have more than one output (i.e. 5.1 and so on) but that they're not made specifically for having a different source for each output, and won't work in that way.

One thing I did was use the internal sound outputs for one channel and then a Soundblaster Extigy for the other channel, the caveats of this are that you have to carry round the external soundcard (extigy) and the sound quality from the internal soundcard generally isn't the best. I wouldn't recommend it, but the dual/quad output add-in pcmcia or usb cards are quite expensive, €500+ when I checked 2 or 3 years ago.

[Avid Listener]

Liamo, where would i find one of these phono/rca units. whats it actually called and how much.. I have the hum on my laptop but have cut the ground in the extension lead... would love to not have to

[Thomas O Gloss]

Hey Avid, I have been using BPM Studio for the past two years on a Dell lap top purley for gigging..& use a external sound card that is recomended for Asio software BPM STUDIO it gives 4 analog in & out with a optical digital output its an Audiotrack Maya 44 USB you can get it from www.thomann.de hope that helps...

T :)

[Liamo]

Liamo, where would i find one of these phono/rca units. whats it actually called and how much.. I have the hum on my laptop but have cut the ground in the extension lead... would love to not have to

Maplin's have one - check for "Ground Loop Isolator". It's Stg£8.99 on their UK website - not sure what it costs in the Irish stores, as there doesn't seem to be a website, but it surely can't be any more than €20.

[RobbieDillon]

A friend of mine bought a usb thing on ebay for a few euro... maybe $5/6!

It's like a usb key but instead of holding data it acts as a sound card! The perfect solution!

[Avid Listener]

Cheers Liamo,

15 euro in Maplin used it for 1st time last night... problem sorted

[DarraghRoberts]

I mentioned the iDJ last year and wondered when we would get one with pitch etc. What do you think of this? www.numark.com

[Turiel]

A friend of mine bought a usb thing on ebay for a few euro... maybe $5/6!

It's like a usb key but instead of holding data it acts as a sound card! The perfect solution!

I tried one of those but the sound quality was shit and there seemed to be latency issues too.

[KJ]

Great post Greg.

Ive been toying with Traktor 2.6 on the PC recently and, for me, its by far the most intuitive DJ software out there

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Traktor-DJ-Studio-26-lg.jpg





Niall is using Final Scratch (http://www.stantonmagnetics.com/v2/fs/index.asp) software with it in Tamango's which would look great visually and is another plus for the software - it allows you to use Technics with your laptop via 2 timecoded pieces of vinyl and is growing in popularity with big name dance DJs in the UK and the States who are sick of losing their record cases in airport luggage.




http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM02/Content/Stanton/PR/Final-Scratch-small.jpg



http://www.frankfurt-vinyl.de/shop/images/artikel/stanton_final_scratch_1.5.jpg



I never liked OTS but Traktor has taken me a step closer to trying out a laptop live, something Ive been contimplating for a couple of years now - its hard to argue with 30,000 songs at your disposal ;)





PS: Has anyone tried using Ableton (http://www.ableton.com/) ? Its all Sasha's using these days at gigs although it might be overkill for commercial DJ'ing

[VOG]

Personally I did not go with traktor because of two things:

Firstly,

I think the interface is way too cluttered, not easy to read....most laptops are 15ich with some at 17 and if you are running with a high resolution then things can get quite small.

Look at most industry standard equipment in broadcast or club djing...simple lay out, reliable and easy to use. One of my fav aspects of the pioneer 1000s is just how well they are layout out. Think of the denons used in alot of radio studios. Simple, reliable and functional.

Secondly,

On traktor it seems to offer very easy to use auto mix function and Id prefer as the months go using not to become reliant on it. I enjoy the work I put into djing and I rather not be sitting on my ass letting a pc do the work and drinking some earl gray.

Digital Djing is still in its infancy and and I really believe a true player or standard has not emerged. Most of the big companies have still yet to jump in. Check out some of the new stuff from numark or mackie and you will see some baby steps.

Finally, one thing I think will become an issue with digital djing is the quality of the music coming out of your system....

There are so many things that need to be right:

Properly encoded mp3s, a decent sound card, remember most laptop sound cards really are not up to any sort of live application. I tried many systems and set ups before I felt confident going to gigs. Using a built in sound card that are mostly pieces of crap and splitting the system into two channels seems ludicrous to me for live work. That’s like taking a bad signal and making it worse.

I don’t want anyone to take this post as a rant just what I researched and hopefully it will offer some direction to those starting out in digital land.

Vog

[Greg Merriman]

VOG - I used to agree with most of what you say in your post however using Traktor makes you see that this is not really the way things work.

The interface can be adjusted to suit your own requirements. You can turn panels on and off and just have the essentials showing, however when you use it for a while you soon relaise that many of the functions are essential and the way I have my system set up (using hot keys with a keyboard protector designed to indiciate the functions on the specific keys) the interface is used only for visual feedback. I do not use a mouse or trakpad when I'm using Traktor.

Also I don't agree with your views on the ease of layout from major manufacturers. The first time any jock is presented with one of the top end Pioneer or Denon CD players they face an enormous array of functionality and buttons which usually takes many months to come to terms with. You can or course just choose to use the play and cue buttons, but then you can also do this in Traktor.

Next - believe you me, the auto mix function in Traktor is far from easy. There are hours of preperatory work involved if you want to use the automix functions. Tracks have to beat gridded and fade in and fade out markers must be placed where you want the mix to begin and end. I don't use automix at all and I agree that there must always be some fun and creativity involved when gigging. Traktor essentially replaces the buttons on a CD player with its interface and the CDs in your case with music files. The job of the DJ stays exactly the same, just the tools differ.

Finally I agree with your points about quality and therefore my laptop is used exclusively for DJing, I have a professional sound card and all my audio files are encoded at 1411kbs - full CD audio quality. Some might view this as overkill but it keeps me happy. Working after some other DJs who use laptops I notice that the gains on the mixer (by the way I always use an external mixer and not the one built in to Traktor) are significantly higher than the gain levels for CD players. With my set up there is no differnece between laptop and CD player level settings and as the audio is encoded at full CD quality there is no difference in sound quality either.

You might also be interested to know that a recent blind testing using top name DJs and music producers on a major London club sound system failed to offer any conclusions. Despite the fact that those taking part were sure that they could tell the difference between CD, mp3 at 128 kbs and at 190 kbs, and ACC files at 128 and 190 kbs, they couldn't.

I hope that gives you a good overview of my thougghts regarding this issue, but they are only my thoguhts and you are fully entitled to yours. In my experience there has always been resistance to new formats for everything, including DJing yet the new formats usually end up being widely adopted. I really think that this will be the case with laptops. Remember when a DJ using CDs wasn't a 'real DJ' ? I do.

Enjoying this discussion, let's keep it going.

[VOG]

Hi Greg thanks for the response I really enjoyed reading it and I agree that this is an interesting discussion and would love to keep it going.

I would just like to clarify some of my opinions:

I really do think laptop/digital djing is the way forward there is no doubt about that. I have spent alot of time and money looking into it Maybe it came across that I was against using laptops but that was not my intension

With regards to traktor I won’t argue with you as you have obviously used it more extensively than me although I will now give it another look. I would be curious to know more about the way you have your system configured i.e. the keyboard protector you talk of.

However I would still disagree about the layout of the top end cd players. Personally I think when you are in a demanding environment like a club or bar, ease of use is a priority but does not necessarily have to limit functionality. That is why I used the pioneer 1000 as an example. They offer some serious functionality but seem to offer it in a clear and simple way.

I could definitely take your point about the comparison within a club, but I think the comparison of encoding mp3 could take up an entire thread in itself. Personally I would not go under 192 but normally encode at 320kbs.

I too have had many a punter come up to me over the years and say your using cds as if that wasn’t djing. I really enjoy djing and have loved every moment of it and I do really believe that these are exciting times and I am looking forward to some of the new releases coming soon.

Hopefully you see some of my views more clearly,

Cheers
VOG

[Greg Merriman]

Hi Vog,

I have a silicon keyboard protector which fits perfectly over my keyboard and in Traktor you can set commands to any key you like using the Hotkeys function. I have printed out little squares - yellow for deck 1 and blue for deck 2 - which contain symbols for the functions assigned to hotkeys.

I cut out the squares and place them between the keyboard protector and the keyboard (the keyboard protector has sections for the keys to fit into).

I put the yellow keys - deck 1 - on the left hand side of the keyboard and the blue keys - deck 2 - on the right hand side.

The keys I have assigned to functions and the functions I have assigned are as follows.

Yellow - Deck 1

1 - Cue Pause
2 - Cue Play
3 - Play
q - Pitch Bend minus
w - Pitch Bend plus
s - Pitch minus
d - Pitch Plus
g - Sync
a - Cue point back
f - Cue point forward
t - Pitch reset
z - load
x - Set Loop In
c - Set Loop out
v - Reloop

Blue - Deck 2

0 - Cue Pause
- - Cue Play
= - Play
p - Pitch Bend minus
[ - Pitch Bend plus
u - Pitch Reset
h - Cue Point Back
k - Cue Point forward
j - sync
l - Pitch minus
; - Pitch plus
m - load
, - Set Loop In
. - Set Loop out
/ - Reloop

This is for a mac keyboard layout which is slightly different to the regular PC layout (I'm not sure if any of the above mentioned keys are actually different)

If you try to visualise it yourself you'll see how handy it is. There is also the added advantage that the silicon protector gives the buttons the exact same spongy type of feel as a CD player.

If anyone else decides to do this sort of approach remember to also print the regular keys on your cardboard cutouts so that you don't have to lift the protector to see where the original symbol is.

By the way, you are absolutely right about the complexity of Traktor and this can be very daunting at first and some functions require relearning some of your DJing methods. For example if you have acurate beat grids set on tracks when you are mixing, the tracks just cannot go out of time if you do it properly. You need to press the sync function for the incoming track and then press the cue/play key between beats four and one. The incoming track won't start playing until the outgoing track reaches the next defined beat after you press the button. This is much easier to demonstrate than explain as it goes completely against our hard learned DJing skills of pressing play on the incoming track at exactly the right time. Mind you, you can choose not to set beat grids and use the play and pitch bend buttons exactly as you would on a CD player, although once you learn the technique in Traktor you will never do that again.

I know I sound like a Traktor evangelist but I was just as daunted at first and decided that Traktor was crap even when using it for bar gigs for almost a year until the light suddenly went on and I understood it.

If your tracks are set up properly you will never do a bad mix again although you will always have to draw on your DJing skills to read the crowd, select the right tunes, decide where to place a loop if you're using one, and still knowing where is the right place to mix. Don't worry - the laptop will not replace the skilled DJ - it will just allow us to play sets that we never thought we could in ways we never believed possible. For example when I discovered how to use Traktor it was at the time that Sorry by Madonna was becoming big. I personally found that track impossible to mix with a CD player because you can't hear a clear start point because of all the filtering used on the intro. With Traktor you don 't have to hear the start point because you can see it.

I know I don't post very often but I think that today's two must be a couple of months worth in length. If I can help with any questions you have, let me know.

Greg

[Alan Redmond]

Hi Greg, long time no see!

Have been reading your fantastic posts regarding traktor and digital DJ ing and I'm thinking of joining you. I have a macbook on order and should have it in a few days.! (can't wait for it) I have a few questions for you.

Do you cary any backup with you, be it CD's or another hard drive etc. in case of the unthinkable Pint spill or mac crash.?

Do you not find it a pain in the arse setting it all up in each venue, i.e. plugging in phono's etc into back of hard to find mixers and setting up external sound card etc.?

Do you put your laptop stand hanging over the mixer or to the side? Any photos you could post?

Thanks dude.

Al.

[Greg Merriman]

Hi Al,

regarding back-up, I have the entire system (including tracks) backed up to an external hard drive which I keep at home and should disaster ever strike I will be able to replace everything from this. I carry three or four mixed comp. C.D.s in my laptop bag so if the system goes down I can stick one on while I get it sorted out. I also have my full case of C.D.s in the boot of the car.

Setting up at venues is easy in most. In one of the venues where I work it are is up with a box with a pair of phono inputs which go to two channels of the mixer which can be toggled between CD and laptop. I use a very simple USB Gigaport AV sound card with 8 outputs. I just connect this to the laptop and two phono cables from outputs 1,2,3 and 4 to the input box. In the one venue where there is no input box I have connected two phone leads into spare mixer channels so I just plug these into the Gigaport AV. I have also put a phono adapter on the end of one of the cables so that other jocks who just use the mini jack output on their laptops can connect directly without having to disconnect my lead. Works a treat.

I use a laptop stand called Cool Laptop Stand which is really great for raising the laptop and screen but is very samll and light for putting in my laptop bag.

I'll do my best to post some photos over the next couple of days.

[david baker]

www.otsdj.com....very reliable and a second to none service by phone if need be around 149 euros per machine

[Alan Redmond]

Thanks Greg. To my dissapointment my new Mac book doesn't support Traktor as its intel..... shame I'll have to wait till October allegedly. But in the meantime i have found about about dj 1800 (thanks David W) which works with iTunes and is a very good programme for the mac. was only $60 and does everything any denon machine can do and syncs with your iTunes library and even plays your aac tracks. It should keep me going.

[Greg Merriman]

Hi Al,

Even though Traktor is not yet supported on intel macs you still have a couple of options.

1. You can run Traktor using Rosetta which emulates non intel macs (mixed results)

2. You can download and install BootCamp (free) from Apple's website and run Windows and the p.c. version of Traktor.

3. You can get the beta version of intel compatable Traktor from Native Intrsuments website.

DJ-1800 is fine but just replicates the functions of a denon 1800 on your computer and is very limted in features.

As usual, each to their own.

Good luck with your search for a silution.

Greg

[Leyland]

Hi Al,

Even though Traktor is not yet supported on intel macs you still have a couple of options.

1. You can run Traktor using Rosetta which emulates non intel macs (mixed results)

2. You can download and install BootCamp (free) from Apple's website and run Windows and the p.c. version of Traktor.

3. You can get the beta version of intel compatable Traktor from Native Intrsuments website.

DJ-1800 is fine but just replicates the functions of a denon 1800 on your computer and is very limted in features.

As usual, each to their own.

Good luck with your search for a silution.

Greg

Greg, have you used Megaseg yet? It is more aimed for the radio Market but it can and has been used for live jocks, so I'm curious as to if you have ran with it.

[Alan Redmond]

Hi Greg,

thanks for the input. not too keen on using rosetta or bootcamp.... trying to get away from all things PC...!

gonna stick with my 1800 (till traktor comes out) as it worked really well on sat night did the whole gig with it and it didn't let me down at all. And i have always rated denon way over pioneer anyways (let the backlash begin!)


so now i can do my gig with my 13" macbook and 9thousand tunes. happy days.

Thanks for your advice.... much appreciated.

[DJ Dangerous]

A night club here is digitizing its DJ booth, while keeping the vinyl and CD players in operation.
I heard that they will be spending approx Eur3,500 on the new system. What is it likely to be, for that price?
The only clues that I have are a vague description:
Turntable platter in the top left and top right corners of the screen, with what I think is some kind of beat matcher in the middle; two vertical lines, one above the other. When the two lines match, the songs are together.
Drag and drop seems to be the method.
There is a facility to connect to a database and download tunes to the console.
I found a system online called Virtual DJ: http://www.virtualdj.com/presentations/mix_club.html, that sounds likely.
Cheers.
Dave.

[discokid]

I think stick to the cds they are not finished yet.I have used loads of programs I now have ultrax pro,one of the best i have used but all in all i pref cds any day.

[MrRed]

All i'll say is.... SERATO.

nuff said!

[KJ]

All i'll say is.... SERATO.

nuff said!


I saw a a DJ in Cuba (the club!) in Galway using this to great effect recently. Effective looking software

[MrRed]

I saw a a DJ in Cuba (the club!) in Galway using this to great effect recently. Effective looking software

That would have been me....so thank you very much KJ