The "Radio in Northern Ireland" thread

[Megawatts]

Any news on this new station of JRs? It has been awarded for a while now. Any news as to its three FM sites, for its 50,000 TSA?

[South Derry Guy]

Yeah does anyone know where Mid-fms three Fm sites are going to be located?? My guess would be Sleive Gallion near Draperstown/Desertmartin or on the old/ former Goldbeat 828s site somewhere near Drapersfield just outside Cookstown.. Does anyone know what frequencys Mid-fm (Not MID-ULSTERFM as the Q-Network failed in there application) Well at least it not another Q-Network radio station.. Good luck Citybeat96.7/Mid fm.. Does anyone know when Mid-fm are due to launch/go on air?? I heard Oct 2002..

[Original Tyrone Gobshite!]

When the licence for Omagh & Enniskillen came up (held by Q101) I instantly predicted that 101.2 would be used as that was a "spare" frequency that Classic FM didn't use from the Brougher Mountian site. However for this Mid-Ulster application it's much harder to work out. In the traditional ILR bands of UK radio (96.1-97.5 and 102.1-103.4) there isn't much space with BBC Radio 4 on 96.0, Northern Sound on 96.3, Downtown on 96.4 & 96.6, 2FM on 97.0, Q97.2, Cool Fm on 97.4, Downtown on 102.3 and 102.4, RnaG on 102.7, Q102.9, Downtown 103.1 (Camlough) and Highland on 103.3. My guess is that they'll be the first NI local stations to use the 105-108 band. The 107-108 frequencies are used for local stations with a power of 100W or less in Britain which isn't going to work for Mid-Ulster so I'd say that we'll see frequencies from 105.0 to 107.0 used for the service. Magic, Kiss and 106.6FM need to be ready for when announcements are made.

[Megawatts]

For Mid FM or whatever their name is, a WISE decison, would be use to ONE FM signal, to cover the TSA, which can very easily be done. For such a small station, the financial cost of using 3 sites, and rentals, and maintenance, is a unnecassary and "political" burden. One site, with suitable antennae, from high above the area, using directed beamed signals, would serve them them very well, offering a powerful, good signal in the TSA, and not massively over spilling.

EG Citybeats "Belfast" signal comes in to Monaghan town! Another job for Don Bannister?

[Justin Speck]

Originally posted by Megawatts
For Mid FM or whatever their name is, a WISE decison, would be use to ONE FM signal, to cover the TSA, which can very easily be done. ...... One site, with suitable antennae, from high above the area, using directed beamed signals, would serve them them very well, offering a powerful, good signal in the TSA, and not massively over spilling.



Hmm, I hate to disagree but I think you'd find it difficult to lay down 54dBuV/m over the whole area from one site. Dungannon in particular is in a hole. Slieve Gallion would probably go TOO far. Somewhere in the foothills may be more appropriate.

BTW, I *think* one of the applicants proposed 3 sites but the other only 2 (presumably not taking up the option of serving Dungannon) but I don't know which applicant proposed which solution.

J

[Radio Presenter]

Few points:

* The TSA will be over 70,000 initially.
* One frequency for the primary targets - Cookstown and Magherafelt.
* A second frequency, spotlighting Dungannon, to be added later.........as already expressed to the Radio Authority.
* This additional frequency will bring the TSA over 100,000.
* They are about to appoint a Station Manager.

[magician]

All I can say is that if magic is forced to move frequency well lets say that there will be some fun with the new stations links, so beware leave 105.1 alone, after all we all know all and I mean ALL the link freqs for all the stations and have sufficent equiptment and technology to MMMmmm ensure that freqs. are maiantained. after all 101.2 did recognise the existance of other tranmissions and avoided using those 'pre allocated' ones.

[Justin Speck]

Originally posted by magician
...so beware leave 105.1 alone, ...

I'm not sure at whom you warning is aimed. Frequencies are of course allocated by the Radio Authority who are unlikely to take unlicensed stations' frequencies into account.

It is possible that the new licensee may have some say in what frequencies are allocated to it and would advise the RA to try to avoid 105.1MHz.

BTW, 101.2MHz was the Classic FM frequency which was agreed years ago. Do you mean that they may have asked for that rather than a frequency in the usual ILR sub-bands to avoid confrontation with pirates?

J

[Mike]

RA's attitude to unlicenced stations when allocating frequencies

Has everyone forgotten the Spectrum Radio/Radio Caroline thing in London a few years ago ?

[Original Tyrone Gobshite!]

I'm not sure why Magican is making such comments. If Mid-FM uses 105.1 what can Magic do? Shift frequency is the only answer. Starting to mess with TX links will almost certainly result in one thing - shutdown. I always thought pirates were to stay away from disturbing licensed broadcasters and those that did so often got a bad name. It's just often tough, as Kiss Dundalk found out when Newstalk 106 started broadcasting. As for Q101, I assumed they took the 101.2 frequency because that frequency would have ensured them the same coverage as the BBC services from Brougher Mt. and that there was no threat of Classic FM (now running nearly 10 years) suddenly wanting that frequency considering they haven't opened a new transmitter in years. One frequency is also able to cover the TSA of Q101 well. Case closed. Maybe Magican could tell us what these "pre allocated frequencies" are?

Looking at maps, I'm thinking a TX on high ground in Pomeroy using easterly directed aerials could work, on the Eastern edge of the Sperrins. This might be able to hit Magherafelt,
Cookstown & Dungannon in one shot.

Mike, I'm too young to remember the 558 allocation in London, but wasn't that not used by Laser as well?

[Mike]

Yeah 558 was initially used by Laser for which they got major grief for "causing interference" (i.e. slight splatter) to RTE Radio One) even though the channel had been previously used by Veronica and (ahem) ILR Capital Radio
When Laser part 1 closed Caroline took over the Channel and continued using it until 1989/90
At one stage the BBC were given 558 for Radio Essex but refused to use it as The USSR were getting a lot of criticisim at the time for jamming (among others) the BBC World Service and the Beeb feared that they would be open to charges of hypocricy by jamming Caroline. Radio Esex went on FM only
When Spectrum got their licence the powers that be insisted that the only Channel available was 558KHz but when Caroline refused to give up the frequency (one of the clearest on the MW band) a second channel (990KHz) magically appeared from behind the sofa for Spectrum. Nonetheless the authorities would only give Spectrum a temporary licence for this frequency and insisted that 558 be used as well.
Needless to say 558 from a full 50Kw transmitter in the Middle of London caused (and still does) far more problems for Irish Londeners wanting to hear RTE than Caroline or Laser (Lower power and miles out at sea) ever did Although on a good radio it is still possible to seperate them out in most parts of the City by tuning slightly above 567KHz.
Since all this (remember 558 was the ONLY AM frequency available in London) Liberty Radio have been allocated 963KHz (another former offshore frequency which supposedly interfered with Finland)

[Mike]

Getting back to Mid Fm a single main frequency (perhaps with a low power relay for Dungannon) would be better than three frequencies if only because not all car radios have RDS

[Radio Presenter]

Mike you're right - That's what was proposed in the application (which I've seen) to the RA.

[Justin Speck]

Originally posted by Original Tyrone Gobshite!
... and that there was no threat of Classic FM (now running nearly 10 years) suddenly wanting that frequency considering they haven't opened a new transmitter in years.
Sorry, this is rather off topic but Classic *have* actually just opened new low power txs in Bath and Bristol. There are another half dozen or so planned. However, I agree with you that they are unlikely to take up any more high or medium power allocations.

[Megawatts]

The Magician, still has not understood the ITS protocols, which deal with these things. Of course The Alien Mountain facilities repect other Spectrum users, which is why we have spent so much time, money and effort keeping what frequencies we use as close to spec as is feasible. (Deviation may get high, but thats the phantom gobshytes who "no" wot they r doing).

If Ulster is ever to get a Dance Station (or a Modern up front new music station), or get an Oldies station (probably Hits of 2525's)
, or a Hot Country station, then there will have to be a few frequencies available.
The issuing of multiple extra channels to existing stations, is NOT in MY (Personal) view, the best way to manage spectrum. The BBC are all over the band, with huge powers, MOST unecessary, when the same frequencies COULD be BETTER used, with Directional systems, Not all on Mountain tops, over spilling for tens of miles outside TSAs, when the signals would be better directed inside the TSA, giving better coverage.

For eg Citybeat fades out in parts of Belfast, as its stuck 500ft up a mast on a mountain. So its signal messes up DTR on 96.6 (BUT that was possibly deliberate, as DTR caused such a bloody row, when the Incrementals were issued. There alledged view at the time, (and currently), was that NO other station should exist, which could take commercials in their TSA. They even wanted Atlantic banned. A right shower of )(*)(&*(_.

Hope Harry gets 252, it would gives us a good station back on air..

[Original Tyrone Gobshite!]

I take your point about Citybeat Miles, in Belfast it is near impossible to hear it on a walkman yet get about 20 miles out of the city and yer flying. When the Downtown TX at Brougher fails Citybeat in most of Tyrone can be pulled in quite easily. Using Cave Hill or the BBC relay station at Carnmoney Hill I'd think would have be a better idea.

As to the point of overspilling, for the BBC as long as they cover most of Northern Ireland I'm sure they're not worried about overspill into the Republic except for perhaps clashing with Northern Sound and LMFM. But some stations can be heard from some distances - CKR almost up to the Cavan/Fermanagh border, NWR in Mullingar, FM104 in Monaghan, Highland in Mayo (the legality of that is questionable) and Q101 in Lisburn!

[Mike]

A lot of frequency space could be freed up in Northern Ireland if the Radio Authority awarded Downtown a "regional" licence and had all their transmitters replaced with just two high power rigs one near Belfast and one near Strabane (Classic FM should also move their L'Derry TX to Strabane)

In the 405 line TV days UTV proved that it was possible to cover most of the province (and beyond) with two high power transmitters

[Megawatts]

Would agree on that, also would be better served for Dead And Buried.

Thats the point I have argued over Energy, or the Alien Mountain site. A more intelligent application of powerful Dirceted signals, is better than a splurge in mountain areas, ...

The old Straban site is up for sale... the mast is Redundant.

[Original Tyrone Gobshite!]

In the 405 line TV days UTV proved that it was possible to cover most of the province (and beyond) with two high power transmittersAgreed, though the relay in Newcastle might need to be retained to serve parts of the Mournes.
The old Straban site is up for sale... the mast is Redundant.How come? This site is still broadcasting TV signals to a lot of Tyrone (and Donegal!) and is feeding a relay station in Bellek, Fermanagh, and is also carrying Score DAB.

[Megawatts]

Good News for COOL FM, boostings ratings. Had its competion been active, it may have been a different matter, but COOL, has no effective competition. Downtown seems to be improving,

If they can produce a new better sound, then good luck to them.

They still contain a vast amount of finger nail curling "Dork" material. We must live in hope, there is nothing else there these days....

[Radio Presenter]

Downtown's figures.........

Reach: 358,000/27% (Previously 378,000/29%)
Average Hours: 9.1 (Previously 10.1)
Market Share: 11.6 (previously 14.3)

I wouldn't regard that as an improvement!

Yip; well done Cool.

But the biggest congratulations must go to John Rosborough and Citybeat.........

Reach: 174,000/32% (Previously 148,000/27%)
Average Hours: 8 (Previously 8.2)
Market Share: 12.3 (previously 11.2)

:D

[Mike]

How do Downtown's figures for Belfast and the rest of NI compare. ?
Id imagine that theres quite a big difference as
1) Theres less competition in many areas outside Belfast
2) For historical reasons theres this bizzare arrangment wherby in Belfast theyre on AM only and everywhere else its FM only

[magician]

I wonder how others are gathered..eg Kiss and Magic both have stations on RAJAR and 'could' their share be going to those stations ?

[ex-pirate]

Before Cool came along, those white suits at Whitehall in London (Radio Authority) decreed that no station in the UK should serve both AM and FM in the same area so they faced the prospect of either losing the AM or FM (Downtown used to 97.4 for Belfast)
So they decided, hey, we'll create a pop station, to serve on 97.4 fm and call it Cool and keep the am freq for Downtown.
Nowadays Downtown have increased their fm frequencies in small pockets outside Belfast that the AM doesn't reach with a reasonable signal.